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Subject: Re: [xacml] Multiple Decison Request Proposal


Hi Erik,

I am now a little confused. The only reason that Attribute gets added to 
DecisionList is to disambiguate multiple instances of the same Category. 
I thought you said in previous email that CorrelationId could not be 
used for this purpose and that we needed to use IncludeInResult:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00053.html

    Thanks,
    Rich


Erik Rissanen wrote:
> Hi again Rich,
>
> There is one more problem. Not all XACML data types have a defined 
> equality function. So it wouldn't work in all cases.
>
> Regards,
> Erik
>
> Erik Rissanen wrote:
>> Hi Rich,
>>
>> I still think that a ID reference is simpler than digging up the 
>> datatype, attribute id and possibly issues, and going through all the 
>> attributes in the request section looking for nested elements 
>> containing matches for all two/three values.
>>
>> Also it's more verbose, making it more difficult to read by humans 
>> (for debugging, development, audit, etc) and means less data to move 
>> around.
>>
>> Regards,
>> erik
>>
>> Rich.Levinson wrote:
>>> Hi Erik,
>>>
>>> I see your point. How about if we constructed ListReference as follows:
>>>
>>>    1. Normal single element in category case:
>>>           * <ListReference Category="cat1"/>
>>>    2. Multiple element in category case:
>>>           * <ListReference Category="cat2">
>>>                 <Attribute AttributeId="xxx" Issuer="yyy"
>>>             DataType="datatype">
>>>                     <AttributeValue>zzz</AttributeValue>
>>>                 </Attribute>
>>>             </ListReference>
>>>
>>> With this approach typical case would be just match Category. 
>>> Multi-case would be match Category and contained Attribute w value. 
>>> Then Attr would only be synthetic in the extreme case as described in:
>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00049.html
>>>
>>>     Thanks,
>>>     Rich
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik Rissanen wrote:
>>>> Hi Rich and all,
>>>>
>>>> This sounds good to me, except that I don't like the use of the 
>>>> synthetic id as the reference in the decision list. This forces all 
>>>> requests to contain synthetic ids, which I think are not needed in 
>>>> most cases, and is also more difficult to parse for a pre-processor 
>>>> since the id is more deeply nested.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Erik
>>>>
>>>> Rich.Levinson wrote:
>>>>> Hi Erik, Hal, and TC,
>>>>>
>>>>> There have been a lot of emails on this issue so far, but I think 
>>>>> we are at the point where all the ambiguities and potential 
>>>>> missing pieces have been accounted for, so I will try to summarize 
>>>>> where I think the proposal currently stands.
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all here are some reference emails that have examples 
>>>>> that show different aspects of the proposed solution:
>>>>>
>>>>>     * example request with XPath (in Erik's most recent email 
>>>>> (below))
>>>>>       which is purported to return multiple nodes (an example 
>>>>> response
>>>>>       would be helpful to augment this:
>>>>>           o 
>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00053.html
>>>>>     * example request with decision lists (Hal's most recent email)
>>>>>       (ignore the CorrelationId, because as Erik showed, it will not
>>>>>       work w XPath)
>>>>>           o 
>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00051.html
>>>>>     * example request showing multiple <Attributes> elements having
>>>>>       same @Category and using "synthetic attribute" with
>>>>>       "...multiple-request:unique-id" (would be useful to have
>>>>>       corresponding response showing returned "disambiguated"
>>>>>       <Attributes> elements
>>>>>           o 
>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00049.html
>>>>>     * example response showing 5 distinct results, not using 
>>>>> synthetic
>>>>>       attribute, but using "...resource:resource-id" for Result
>>>>>       correlation. (This shows the important concept that not only is
>>>>>       the <Attribute> with the @IncludeInResult returned, but also 
>>>>> its
>>>>>       parent <Attributes> element with the @Category.)
>>>>>           o 
>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00045.html
>>>>>     * original example request w DecisionList and w follow-up minor
>>>>>       correction
>>>>>           o 
>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00015.html
>>>>>           o 
>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00035.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on the analysis that has been done, I have a few 
>>>>> recommendations that, at least to me, appear to be important 
>>>>> enough to itemize as suggestions for the specifications.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the 3.0 Core spec:
>>>>>
>>>>>    1. It became inferentially apparent that a fundamental "rule" is
>>>>>       that a Request context that is processed by the PDP must 
>>>>> have at
>>>>>       most 1 <Attributes> element with a specific Category. I
>>>>>       recommend that this be explicitly stated in section 5.35 in the
>>>>>       description of the <Attributes> [One to Many] element. What is
>>>>>       there now is not unambiguous in this regard, and I recommend it
>>>>>       be tightened up.
>>>>>    2. Similarly, I think explicit text should be in Section 5.37 for
>>>>>       the Category [Required] description. i.e. specify that while
>>>>>       multiple <Attributes> elements with the same Category are
>>>>>       allowed in the Request element, that for the purpose of making
>>>>>       an authorization decision, only one <Attributes> element per
>>>>>       Category is allowed.
>>>>>    3. Section 5.39 under explanation of IncludeInResult [Default
>>>>>       false] I recommend that when included in Result the Attribute
>>>>>       will be parented by its <Attributes w @Category> element. Also
>>>>>       if multiple <Attribute> elements within one Category are 
>>>>> tagged,
>>>>>       then they will share the parent.
>>>>>    4. Section 5.41 under explanation of <Attributes> element, I
>>>>>       recommend that it be explicitly stated that there will be one
>>>>>       <Attributes> element for each @Category in the Request that
>>>>>       contained an @IncludeInResult.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the 3.0 Multi-Decision spec:
>>>>>
>>>>>    1. I recommend that at least for the multi-Attributes @Category
>>>>>       mechanism that a clear explanation be included that without
>>>>>       DecisionLists, that there is an inferential n-dimensional
>>>>>       cross-product applied, where n is the number of @Categories
>>>>>       that  have multiple <Attributes> elements within the Request.
>>>>>       So, for example if there are 3 Category attrs, say cat1, cat2,
>>>>>       cat3 that occur in multiple <Attributes> elements, for example
>>>>>       let's say there are 4 <Attributes> elements w cat1, 4 with 
>>>>> cat2,
>>>>>       and 3 w cat3, then there will inferentially be 4x4x3 = 48
>>>>>       individual Requests generated to the PDP, each of which will
>>>>>       have a Result element in the Response. It would also be worth
>>>>>       noting that if there are additional single element Category
>>>>>       attrs, say cat4, cat5, and cat6, that the <Attributes> element
>>>>>       for each of those Category attrs will be evaluated in all 48
>>>>>       decisions. i.e. all 48 decisions will be based on
>>>>>       cat1,cat2,cat3,cat4,cat5,cat6, where 4,5,6 remain constant thru
>>>>>       the process and 1,2,3 are incremented as if to visit every cell
>>>>>       in a 4x4x3 3-dimensional matrix in this particular example.
>>>>>    2. I recommend that the DecisionLists mechanism be introduced 
>>>>> as an
>>>>>       augmentation to the n-dimesional matrix in 1 above. i.e. given
>>>>>       the 48 decisions above, I think that DecisionLists can be used
>>>>>       to pare down the list so that the full n-dimensional cross
>>>>>       product does not get evaluated. i.e. The DecisionLists would
>>>>>       override the inferential processing if they were present.
>>>>>           * For example, if we really didn't want the 4x4 portion
>>>>>             above but were really interested in 2 2x2 portions, there
>>>>>             could be 2 DecisionLists up front that contained the
>>>>>             following elements:
>>>>>                 o 
>>>>> cat11,cat12,cat21,cat22,cat31,cat32,cat33,cat4,cat5,cat6
>>>>>                 o 
>>>>> cat33,cat34,cat43,cat44,cat31,cat32,cat33,cat4,cat5,cat6
>>>>>           * Each of the above DecisionLists would produce 2x2x3 = 12
>>>>>             results for a total of 24 results.
>>>>>           * i.e. the suggestion is that the presence of DecisionLists
>>>>>             simply override the inferential multiple effect of the
>>>>>             <Attributes> elements themselves and transfer the
>>>>>             inferential effect to the multiple category instances w
>>>>>             same category to within each list.
>>>>>           * i.e. the presence of the DecisionLists would effectively
>>>>>             say: regard the actual <Attributes> elements as a pool of
>>>>>             referencable entities and process the request as if
>>>>>             multiple Request elements had come in with <Attributes>
>>>>>             elements listed in the DecisionList, and process
>>>>>             inferentially on that basis. Everything would be returned
>>>>>             in a single response.
>>>>>    3. The only lingering "annoyance" is that the DecisionLists 
>>>>> address
>>>>>       the <Attributes> elements by the xml:id, whereas within the
>>>>>       inferential processing we need to reference for correlation
>>>>>       purposes based on an internal IncludeInResult attribute. 
>>>>> This is
>>>>>       not a show-stopper of any sort, but it does appear that there
>>>>>       are 2 mechanisms effectively used to identify the same
>>>>>       <Attributes> element. A couple of considerations:
>>>>>           * It would seem that xml:id for <Attributes> elements that
>>>>>             only had a single instance is more than is needed since
>>>>>             one could theoretically simply identify these single
>>>>>             instance elements by identifying their Category value.
>>>>>           * It seems that what's needed for the DecisionLists that 
>>>>> are
>>>>>             going to use multiple <Attributes> elements with the same
>>>>>             Category is something within the <Attributes> element 
>>>>> that
>>>>>             distinguishes it from the other <Attributes> elements of
>>>>>             the same Category. This seems to be deja vu all over 
>>>>> again
>>>>>             (sic) wrt the analysis that left us with the "synthetic
>>>>>             attributes" as the ultimate decider for those cases where
>>>>>             nothing else would work
>>>>>             
>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200901/msg00049.html
>>>>>           * Therefore, I am tentatively suggesting that a usable
>>>>>             alternative to URI,xml:id might be 
>>>>> @Category.value(index),
>>>>>             where "index" would be the value of a synthetic attribute
>>>>>             within the <Attributes @Category> element with
>>>>>             AttributeId="...multiple-request:unique-id".
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe everything above, is essentially pretty much identifying 
>>>>> what has already been decided and putting it all in one place, at 
>>>>> least wrt 3.0 Core spec, plus I think that comment 1 for 
>>>>> multi-decision is simply stating what has already been agreed, 
>>>>> comment 2 is some clarification on how DecisionLists could be 
>>>>> viewed and used, and comment 3 admittedly is something "new" to 
>>>>> address what appears to me to be a lingering "rough spot" in what 
>>>>> has been decided so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>     Rich
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Erik Rissanen wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Hal,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just realized that the CorrelationId will not work, and we need 
>>>>>> the IncludeInResult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The existing 2.0 multiple resource profile defines a few more 
>>>>>> modes of multiple requests than multiple <Resource> elements. For 
>>>>>> instance, it is possible to specify multiple request in the form 
>>>>>> of an xpath expression on the <ResourceContent>, where each node 
>>>>>> the xpath matches will generate an individual request. Like this 
>>>>>> for instance:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   2 <Request
>>>>>>   3       xmlns="urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:2.0:context:schema:os"
>>>>>>   4       xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance";
>>>>>>   5       xmlns:md="http://www.medico.com/schemas/record";
>>>>>>   6       
>>>>>> xmlns:xacml-context="urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:2.0:context:schema:os"
>>>>>>   7       
>>>>>> xsi:schemaLocation="urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:2.0:context:schema:os
>>>>>>   8         access_control-xacml-2.0-context-schema-os.xsd">
>>>>>>   9     <Subject>
>>>>>>  10         <Attribute
>>>>>>  11               
>>>>>> AttributeId="urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:1.0:subject:subject-id"
>>>>>>  12               
>>>>>> DataType="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#string";>
>>>>>>  13             <AttributeValue>Julius Hibbert</AttributeValue>
>>>>>>  14         </Attribute>
>>>>>>  15     </Subject>
>>>>>>  16     <Resource>
>>>>>>  17         <ResourceContent>
>>>>>>  18                 <md:record>
>>>>>>  19                 <md:patient_info>
>>>>>>  20                     <md:name>Bart Simpson</md:name>
>>>>>>  21                     <md:age>60</md:age>
>>>>>>  22                     <md:sex>male</md:sex>
>>>>>>  23                     
>>>>>> <md:health_insurance>123456</md:health_insurance>
>>>>>>  24                 </md:patient_info>
>>>>>>  25                 <md:diagnosis_info>
>>>>>>  26                     <md:diagnosis>
>>>>>>  27                         <md:item type="primary">Gastric 
>>>>>> Cancer</md:item>
>>>>>>  28                         <md:item type="secondary">Hyper 
>>>>>> tension</md:item>
>>>>>>  29                     </md:diagnosis>
>>>>>>  30                     <md:pathological_diagnosis>
>>>>>>  31                         <md:diagnosis>
>>>>>>  32                             <md:item type="primary">Well 
>>>>>> differentiated adeno carcinoma</md:item>
>>>>>>  33                         </md:diagnosis>
>>>>>>  34                         <md:date>2000-10-05</md:date>
>>>>>>  35                         <md:malignancy type="yes"/>
>>>>>>  36                     </md:pathological_diagnosis>
>>>>>>  37                 </md:diagnosis_info>               
>>>>>>  38             </md:record>
>>>>>>  39         </ResourceContent>
>>>>>>  40         <Attribute\r
>>>>>>  41               
>>>>>> AttributeId="urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:1.0:resource:resource-id"
>>>>>>  42               
>>>>>> DataType="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#string";>
>>>>>>  43             
>>>>>> <AttributeValue>*[local-name()='Resource'][namespace-uri()='urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:2.0:context:schema:os']/*[local-name()='ResourceContent'][namespace-uri()='urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:2.0:context:schema:os']/*[local-name()='record'][namespace-uri()='http://www.medico.com/schemas/record']/*[local-name()='patient_info'][namespace-uri()='http://www.medico.com/schemas/record']/*[self::*[local-name()='name'][namespace-uri()='http://www.medico.com/schemas/record'] 
>>>>>> or 
>>>>>> self::*[local-name()='age'][namespace-uri()='http://www.medico.com/schemas/record']]/descendant-or-self::node()</AttributeValue> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  44         </Attribute>
>>>>>>  45         <Attribute
>>>>>>  46               
>>>>>> AttributeId="urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:1.0:resource:scope"
>>>>>>  47               
>>>>>> DataType="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#string";>
>>>>>>  48             <AttributeValue>XPath-expression</AttributeValue>
>>>>>>  49         </Attribute>
>>>>>>  50     </Resource>
>>>>>>  51     <Action>
>>>>>>  52         <Attribute
>>>>>>  53               
>>>>>> AttributeId="urn:oasis:names:tc:xacml:1.0:action:action-id"
>>>>>>  54               
>>>>>> DataType="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#string";>
>>>>>>  55             <AttributeValue>read</AttributeValue>
>>>>>>  56         </Attribute>
>>>>>>  57     </Action><Environment/></Request>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From this request there will be multiple results, but there is 
>>>>>> only one <Resource> element. Each result will contain a specific 
>>>>>> ResourceId XML attribute for correlation purposes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the corresponding 3.0 multiple request, it will be necessary 
>>>>>> to use the IncludeInResult since there are not multiple Attribute 
>>>>>> elements, which could be used for correlation, even if they had a 
>>>>>> CorrelationId.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I think we should drop the CorrelationId proposal, and if 
>>>>>> necessary, people will have to use a synthetic XACML attribute 
>>>>>> for correlation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Erik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hal Lockhart wrote:
>>>>>>> As of today's meeting I believe we are down to deciding how to 
>>>>>>> do correlation. The alternative previously proposed is to use 
>>>>>>> the IncludeInResponse mechanism. This may involve submitting 
>>>>>>> synthetic attributes, not referenced by policy, simply to 
>>>>>>> correlate requests and decisions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The new idea (at least to me) is to move my previously proposed 
>>>>>>> XML Attribute - CorrelationID - to the <Attributes> element 
>>>>>>> instead of having it in the <DecisionList> element.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This seems clearer to me, but others should express their 
>>>>>>> opinions. The new scheme would look something like this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Request>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   <DecisionLists>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <DecisionList>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Sub1"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Env"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Res1"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Act1"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </DecisionList>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <DecisionList>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Sub1"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Sub2"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Env"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Res2"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Act2"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </DecisionList>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <DecisionList>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Sub3"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Env"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Res1"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         <ListReference URI="Act2"/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </DecisionList>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <DecisionList ... >
>>>>>>>     ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </DecisionList>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   </DecisionLists>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <Attributes Category="Access_Subject" XML:Id="Sub1" 
>>>>>>> CorrelationId="FirstSubject">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <Attributes Category="Intemediary_Subject" XML:Id="Sub2" 
>>>>>>> CorrelationId="SecondSubject">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <Attributes Category="Intemediary_Subject" XML:Id="Sub3" 
>>>>>>> CorrelationId="ThirdSubject">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    <Attributes Category="Environment" XML:Id="Env">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <Attributes Category="Resource" XML:Id="Res1" 
>>>>>>> CorrelationId="FirstResource">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <Attributes Category="Resource" XML:Id="Res2" 
>>>>>>> CorrelationId="Secondresource">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <Attributes Category="Action" XML:Id="Act1" 
>>>>>>> CorrelationId="FirstAction">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     <Attributes Category="Action" XML:Id="Act2" 
>>>>>>> CorrelationId="SecondAction">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       <Attribute>
>>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>>       </Attribute>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     </Attributes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> </Request>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> that
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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