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Subject: Re: [xliff] Ballot is open to voting members
Bryan, I noted from a message in another TC list that there may be a (new) problem with Kavi ballot management, so I will take this up with Scott McGrath, who is more familiar with Kavi ballots than I am. Thanks to you and the TC members for providing feedback. - Robin On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Schnabel, Bryan S <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> wrote: > Hi Robin, > > Thanks for taking the time to clearly explain this situation. It seems all is in order and accounted for. I just have one small remaining curiosity. You mention in your note that eligible voters *are* notified, and that other TC members are not: > >> Kavi (as configured) does not notify the TC >> when a TC ballot has been opened. ONLY the eligible >> voting members are notified -- or rather, the persons >> identified as "eligible" in the ballot. > > My motivation for sending a separate note to the list to announce the ballot was that I did not see any evidence that even the eligible members were notified. It seemed to me that after I initiated the ballot - nobody (including the eligible members) received notification. > > So here's a question to the voting TC members: did any/all of you get a notification that the ballot had begun (besides my side note)? > > If the answer is no, that means kavi may have a more serious bug than you described, Robin. If the answer is yes, perhaps that means that only the ballot initiator does not get a notification (which is a bit clunky, but not the end of the world). > > Thanks, > > Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org] > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:25 AM > To: Schnabel, Bryan S > Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Robin Cover; Chet Ensign > Subject: Re: [xliff] Ballot is open to voting members > > Bryan, I just noticed your bewilderment [1] about Kavi not > sending the TC a notification message that your TC Ballot > had been opened, and your self-doubt about possible > incorrect gestures in ballot setup, needing Kavi training, etc: > >> I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe >> I need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of >> unexpected results > > Not your fault! I made cursory inspection of the ballot you > set up (from the Kavi point of view) and scan of the > related email messages to the TC [3]. > > It appears to me that you set up the ballot exactly right, > and that you did nothing incorrectly. I have copied out > the ballot details below [2] for XLIFF TC members to > inspect, including the list of persons reckoned as > eligible to vote. > > From inspection of the TC list messages (initial motion, > motion revised to clarify that a TC Liaison with the XLIFF > TC is desired, preliminary nomination of someone to > serve as the liaison for the TC) it appears that the process > for creating the TC Liaison you want is now underway > via the TC Ballot: > > http://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/liaison#tcliaison > > As to Kavi: Bryan, you are not the first person to be surprised > by the fact that Kavi (as configured) does not notify the TC > when a TC ballot has been opened. ONLY the eligible > voting members are notified -- or rather, the persons > identified as "eligible" in the ballot. > > IMO, that constitutes a significant flaw in the Kavi > balloting system (as configured). I can think of > many reasons why all TC members should receive > an automatic notice from the system (e.g., sent to > the TC Members/Observers via the TC list) when a > ballot is opened. > > For one thing: the ballot may have been set up incorrectly > e.g., failing to reckon as "eligible" some person or > persons who personally believe they ARE eligible to > vote in the ballot. > > If no notification is sent to the entire list, then someone > omitted in error (or allegedly in error) does not have > predictable opportunity to even know that a ballot is > underway, and to notice the omission. > > A workaround sometimes used by TC Admin may provide > a model for you as Chair in the XLIFF TC. When we set > up a Special Majority ballot for the TC e.g., for Committee > Specification approval, we: > > a) create the ballot in Kavi > b) wait for notice to be sent back to the ballot creator > via email message > c) forward that email message (or send equivalent email > message annotated) to the TC list -- where the message > contains the text of the ballot and identifies the eligible > voting members for that ballot, as reckoned > d) explicitly invite all TC members to review the ballot text > for correctness of the motion and for the list of > eligible voters, asking for corrections that might need > to be made, if any > > I'll try to raise the (Kavi) notification issue with other OASIS > Staff to see if improvements ( at least as ballot set options) > can be made in the new/upcoming "Kavi 5" rollout. > > Robin Cover > OASIS > > [1] Bryan's note about ballot notification ============== > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00036.html > > Subject: Ballot is open to voting members > From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> > To: "xliff@lists.oasis-open.org" <xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> > Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 09:36:42 -0700 > > Hello TC, > > It seems kavi did not send a notice out yesterday that I had > initiated a ballot on Helena's behalf (seconded by Peter). > > Thus, please consider this the request that eligible voting > member go to > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballots.php > and cast your vote on the open ballot. > > (I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe I > need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of > unexpected results) > > - Bryan > > [2] Ballot details ============================= > > XLIFF Ballot > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballot.php?id=2027 > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=2027 > > Ballot Details > Should the XLIFF TC provide a Unicode representative? > > The XLIFF TC shall elect a representative from OASIS XLIFF > TC to Unicode for the formal liaison membership between > Unicode Consortium and the OASIS XLIFF TC. > > "Yes" means wish the TC to hold an election / "No" means > wish the TC to not hold an election. > [ ] Yes > [ ] No > [ ] Abstain > > Opening: Friday, 6 May 2011 @ 17:30 ET > Closing: Thursday, 12 May 2011 @ 17:30 ET > > Eligible Voting Members listed > Voting Details > > Yves Savourel ENLASO Corporation > David Walters IBM > Helena Chapman IBM > Bryan Schnabel* Individual > Lucia Morado Vazquez Localisation Research Centre* > David Filip Localisation Research Centre* > Rodolfo Raya Maxprograms > Peter Reynolds Polish Association of Translation Agencies... > Christian Lieske SAP AG* > Andrew Swift SDL International* > > > [3] earlier postings on topic ============================= > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00030.html > > Subject: Motion to conduct an electronic ballot > From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> > To: "xliff@lists.oasis-open.org" <xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> > Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 12:57:41 -0700 > > Hello TC voting members, > > Helena has proposed a ballot that we "Elect a representative > from OASIS XLIFF TC to Unicode for the formal liaison > membership between Unicode Consortium and OASIS." Further > details are contained in the attached thread. > > Per the OASIS policy > (http://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/tc-process#voting ), > I invite any eligible voting member to second Helena's motion. > > Normally the motion to hold an electronic ballot must be made > in a TC meeting. But I will use the clause that our TC " has > adopted a standing rule to allow this motion to be made on the > TC's general email list." > > As soon as I receive a second, I will set up the ballot in kavi > (in accordance with our TC's standing custom). Per the OASIS > policy, the ballot period will be seven days (this is the > minimum duration). At the conclusion a simple majority will > either pass or not pass the proposal. > > Followups: -------------- > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00032.html > Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot > From: "Peter Reynolds" <p.reynolds@maart.pl> > To: "Schnabel, Bryan S" > <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>,<xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> > Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 22:15:40 +0200 > > Hi Bryan, > > I am happy to second this but I think that we make sure > this is a formal liaison between Unicode Consortium > and OASIS XLIFF TC and not just with OASIS. It the > liaison was just with OASIS we should consult Jamie Clark. > > I would also like to nominate David Filip as the liaison > if this motion is passed. > > Thannks and I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend, > > Peter. > > ------------------------ > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00033.html > > Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot > From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> > To: Peter Reynolds <p.reynolds@maart.pl>, Helena S Chapman<hchapman@us.ibm.com> > Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:40:25 -0700 > > Hi Helena, > > Peter seconds, but would like to add the specific reference > to XLIFF. Is this wording acceptable to you: > > "Elect a representative from OASIS XLIFF TC to Unicode for > the formal liaison membership between Unicode Consortium > and the OASIS XLIFF TC." > > If so I will initiate that ballot. > > Thanks, > Bryan > > ------------------------ > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00034.html > > Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot > > From: Helena S Chapman <hchapman@us.ibm.com> > To: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> > Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:12:12 -0400 > > Sounds good to me or "okie, dokie". > > ------------------------ > > > > > On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Schnabel, Bryan S > <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> wrote: >> Hello TC, >> >> It seems kavi did not send a notice out yesterday that I had initiated a ballot on Helena's behalf (seconded by Peter). >> >> Thus, please consider this the request that eligible voting member go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballots.php and cast your vote on the open ballot. >> >> (I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe I need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of unexpected results) >> >> - Bryan >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> >> > > -- > Robin Cover > OASIS, Director of Information Services > Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink > Email: robin@oasis-open.org > Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover > Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ > Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html > Tel: +1 972-296-1783 > > > -- Robin Cover OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink Email: robin@oasis-open.org Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html Tel: +1 972-296-1783
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