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Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: [xml-dev] [schema] which assertions can't you express?]]


Some interesting use case notes from XML-dev today that I feel CAM can 
handle (just drop the structure here
intot he template 'as is' and then write some <rules> to handle the 
constraints).

DW

===========
Subject:
RE: [xml-dev] [schema] which assertions can't you express ?
From:
"Cross, Neal - Senior Developer" <ncross@icc.co.uk>
Date:
Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:36:26 +0100

To:
"Philippe Poulard" <Philippe.Poulard@sophia.inria.fr>, 
<xml-dev@lists.xml.org>


I have found that a schema is of no use to us at all because of the way that our XML is structured:-

<section id="report definition">
	<section id="officers">
		<section id="secretary" limit="2">
			<section id="name"/>
			<section id="appointment date"/>
			<section id="date of birth"/>
			<section id="occupation"/>
			<section id="address"/>
			<section id="disqualified flag"/>
			<section id="disqualified reason"/>
			<section id="disqualified start"/>
			<section id="disqualified end"/>
			<section id="previous address" limit="1">
				<section id="address"/>
			</section>

etc, etc.

Now, how do I create a schema to represent this considering that is is indexed by the attribute value of id?

-----Original Message-----
From: Philippe Poulard [mailto:Philippe.Poulard@sophia.inria.fr]
Sent: 08 September 2004 12:54
To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: [xml-dev] [schema] which assertions can't you express ?


hi,

An XML Schema is the expression of some assertions expected on an XML 
document class. Assertions on XML documents ensure that applications 
will process them without causing faults. Expressing assertions with 
schemas ensure that applications developpers will spend most of their 
time in designing data process and few of their time in controlling them.

Any schema technology is designed to cover numbers of assertions 
expressed. However, if think that the existing schema technologies (DTD, 
W3C XML Schema, Relax NG, Schematron) can't express some constraint types.

I have some ideas of what these constraint types might be, but I'd like 
to know, helped by your own experiences, which kind of useful assertions 
can't be expressed with these schema technologies (so frustrating).

For example :
-i'd like that the number of occurrences of an element is equal to a 
value of a given attribute (Schematron could do that)
-i'd like that the value of a given attribute exists in my RDBMS
-etc...

Thanks in advance
-- Cordialement,


--- Begin Message ---
I have found that a schema is of no use to us at all because of the way 
that our XML is structured:- <section id="report definition"> <section 
id="officers"> <section id="secretary" limit="2"> <section id="name"/> 
<section id="appointment date"/> <section id="date of birth"/> <section 
id="occupation"/> <section id="address"/> <section id="disqualified 
flag"/> <section id="disqualified reason"/> <section id="disqualified 
start"/> <section id="disqualified end"/> <section id="previous address" 
limit="1"> <section id="address"/> </section> etc, etc. Now, how do I 
create a schema to represent this considering that is is indexed by the 
attribute value of id? -----Original Message----- From: Philippe Poulard 
[mailto:Philippe.Poulard@sophia.inria.fr] Sent: 08 September 2004 12:54 
To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org Subject: [xml-dev] [schema] which assertions 
can't you express ? hi, An XML Schema is the expression of some 
assertions expected on an XML document class. Assertions on XML 
documents ensure that applications will process them without causing 
faults. Expressing assertions with schemas ensure that applications 
developpers will spend most of their time in designing data process and 
few of their time in controlling them. Any schema technology is designed 
to cover numbers of assertions expressed. However, if think that the 
existing schema technologies (DTD, W3C XML Schema, Relax NG, Schematron) 
can't express some constraint types. I have some ideas of what these 
constraint types might be, but I'd like to know, helped by your own 
experiences, which kind of useful assertions can't be expressed with 
these schema technologies (so frustrating). For example : -i'd like that 
the number of occurrences of an element is equal to a value of a given 
attribute (Schematron could do that) -i'd like that the value of a given 
attribute exists in my RDBMS -etc... Thanks in advance
-- Cordialement, /// (. .) -----ooO--(_)--Ooo----- | Philippe Poulard | 
-----------------------
--- Begin Message ---
I have found that a schema is of no use to us at all because of the way that our XML is structured:-

<section id="report definition">
	<section id="officers">
		<section id="secretary" limit="2">
			<section id="name"/>
			<section id="appointment date"/>
			<section id="date of birth"/>
			<section id="occupation"/>
			<section id="address"/>
			<section id="disqualified flag"/>
			<section id="disqualified reason"/>
			<section id="disqualified start"/>
			<section id="disqualified end"/>
			<section id="previous address" limit="1">
				<section id="address"/>
			</section>

etc, etc.

Now, how do I create a schema to represent this considering that is is indexed by the attribute value of id?

-----Original Message-----
From: Philippe Poulard [mailto:Philippe.Poulard@sophia.inria.fr]
Sent: 08 September 2004 12:54
To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: [xml-dev] [schema] which assertions can't you express ?


hi,

An XML Schema is the expression of some assertions expected on an XML 
document class. Assertions on XML documents ensure that applications 
will process them without causing faults. Expressing assertions with 
schemas ensure that applications developpers will spend most of their 
time in designing data process and few of their time in controlling them.

Any schema technology is designed to cover numbers of assertions 
expressed. However, if think that the existing schema technologies (DTD, 
W3C XML Schema, Relax NG, Schematron) can't express some constraint types.

I have some ideas of what these constraint types might be, but I'd like 
to know, helped by your own experiences, which kind of useful assertions 
can't be expressed with these schema technologies (so frustrating).

For example :
-i'd like that the number of occurrences of an element is equal to a 
value of a given attribute (Schematron could do that)
-i'd like that the value of a given attribute exists in my RDBMS
-etc...

Thanks in advance
-- 
Cordialement,

            ///
           (. .)
  -----ooO--(_)--Ooo-----
|   Philippe Poulard    |
  -----------------------

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