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Subject: Re: [chairs] Simplified TC attendance rules

Thanks - I've noted questions/comments in line - this color/pen with drj up front.  
Regards, Diane
IBM  Emerging Internet Software Standards
(919)254-7221 or 8-444-7221, Mobile: 919-624-5123, Fax 845-491-5709

Eduardo Gutentag <Eduardo.Gutentag@Sun.COM>

08/18/2005 09:29 PM

Diane Jordan/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
James Bryce Clark <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>, chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
Re: [chairs] Simplified TC attendance rules

Oh, this was never answered. See inline:

On 08/12/2005 01:01 PM, Diane Jordan wrote:
> Thanks Jamie, but I still would like a clarification:  
> - a person applies to join a TC.  They are an applicant until until
> approved by their company's primary representative.  

> - once approved they become a member.


> - if they attend 2 consecutive meetings, they get voting rights.


> - if they do not attend 2 consecutive meeting, they get voting rights
> after 60 days.

Yes, if it is a TC that holds Meetings (most TCs fall under this
classification). Otherwise, in the case of TCs that do not hold
Meetings, the conditions are different.

> - voting rights are lost again after missing 2 consecutive meetings.

Yes (in the case of a TC that holds Meetings)

drj: I'm with you up to here.
> Is this right?  I've noticed there are a number of people who enroll in
> the BPEL TC and never attend any meetings.  They used to be observers
> but now are members.  We meet weekly, which may make our situation a bit
> more dynamic - after 60 days we would give them voting rights and then
> taking them away again 2 meetings later.

Actually, this is not totally right. The 60 days apply only in the case
of obtaining voting rights for the first time after joining the TC (and
only in the case of someone joining the TC after the first meeting).

drj: yes, I got this.
a TC Member has had voting rights in that TC, the only requirement to
re-gain voting rights after losing them is to attend two consecutive

drj: yes, got this.

 It would seem than in the case of your TC these people would
lose voting rights very quickly and never regain them, which is exactly
what this rule tries to attain: if you don't play you don't get to vote...
drj: if people have never attended, I don't think they should get the right to vote even once.  Attendance requirements should be met before they become voting members.

> It used to be that attendance
> requirements had to be met during the probationary period before voting
> rights were conferred.  That still seems like an appropriate bar to get
> voting rights.  

And it is still the case. The problem is...? I'm not quite sure I
understand what you're driving at.

drj: it used to be that prospective members had to wait 60 days or 3 meetings, but if they didn't attend 2 out of the 3 meetings during that time, they didn't become members.  Now, it appears anyone who applies gets voting rights after 60 days even if they attend no meetings - in our case that is 8 meetings - a lot of time they could and should have been involved if they plan to vote.
I expect the most common case will be that they just want to be members not voting members and will never attend. In this situation, it just makes work for the chairs to identify them, make them voting members and then two meetings later, take their voting rights away.  I think members should be required to attend 2 consecutive meetings before obtaining voting rights regardless of the waiting period except for the first meeting rule of course  (ie, after the first meeting, new members in a tc that has meetings must wait 60 days or 3 meetings and attend the 2 consecutive meetings before being eligible for voting rights to get them.  If they don't meet attendance requirements at the end of the waiting period, they do not get voting rights - they should get them when they attend 2 consecutive meetings, just like other long standing members.)
BTW - when can we expect to have the attendance report tool updated to support the new rule?  Last I checked, it was still identifying 2 out of 3 absences rather than 2 consecutive.


> Regards, Diane
> IBM  Emerging Internet Software Standards
> drj@us.ibm.com
> (919)254-7221 or 8-444-7221, Mobile: 919-624-5123, Fax 845-491-5709
> *James Bryce Clark <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>*
> 08/10/2005 11:36 PM
> To
>                  chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
> cc
> Subject
>                  [chairs] Simplified TC attendance rules
>     After the 15 April 2005 TC Process revisions were posted, we
> received significant feedback from TC chairs and others that the revised
> rules for TC attendance in Section 2.4 -- which govern when voting
> rights are acquired and lost -- were not easy to administer.  We try to
> make only infrequent changes to the TC Process, but our Board of
> Directors took this feedback to heart and re-examined the rule.  At
>  their last meeting, they directed the Board's TC Process Committee to
> simplify the rule.  The new text is set out at the bottom if this
> message.  Note:
>     -- A TC member who fails to attend may lose their *voting* rights as
> a result, but their *membership* does not expire due to absences.  
>    --  Most felt that the "2 out of 3" and "3 out of 4" formulations
> we've discussed were easy to misinterpret.  So we built the revised rule
> around "2 consecutive meetings":  members will lose voting rights by
> missing 2 in a row, and regain them after attending 2 in a row.  
>    -- A simple rule should be easier to administer.  This is important
> because we rely on volunteer TC chairs and secretaries to mind
> attendance.  Our next task will be to make the database-driven TC
> rosters and attendance tracking functions more user-friendly.
>    -- We did also consider, but declined, giving TC chairs discretionary
> power to waive the attendance rules.  There were a range of opinions
> here.  More focused on the risk of inconsistent or inappropriate use of
> the waiver.  A person with a planned absence still can employ the leave
> of absence rules.  
>    The Board delegated the power to change this rule to the TC Process
> Committee, so that we could amend immediately instead of waiting another
> month.  We enacted this change on Tuesday, effective immediately upon
> posting, and will post it to the [members] list and the official TC
> Process page shortly after this announcement to you.  Our thanks to the
> TC leaders and participants who flagged this issue for us and suggested
> solutions.  The revised test of the rule follows.  
> 2.4 TC Membership and Participation
>    TC membership is per person, not per organization, and is not
> transferable from person to person.
> Observer
>    An Eligible Person may become an Observer of a TC by registering as
> an Observer using the electronic collaboration tools provided by OASIS.
> If the Eligible Person is an employee or designee of an OASIS member
> organization, the Primary Representative of that organization must be
> notified that the person has requested to become an Observer. The
> Observer is not a Member of the TC so has no attendance or participation
> requirements to maintain this status, other than to remain an Eligible
> Person.
> Member
>    Any time after the first meeting, an Eligible Person shall become a
> Member of an existing TC by registering as a Member using the electronic
> collaboration tools provided by OASIS. If the Eligible Person is an
> employee or designee of an OASIS member organization, the Primary
> Representative of that organization must confirm to the Chair and to the
> TC Administrator that the person may become a Member of the TC. Upon
> receipt by the Chair of confirmation by the Primary Representative the
> Member may begin participating, but shall not have voting rights. A
> Member shall become eligible to vote in the TC when the requirements
> below are met.
> Voting Member
>    After the first Meeting of a TC, a Member shall gain voting rights at
> the close of the second consecutive Meeting attended by the Member or 60
> days after the person becomes a Member, whichever comes first.
>    A Voting Member must be active in a TC to maintain voting rights. In
> TCs that hold Meetings, a Voting Member who is absent from two
> consecutive Meetings (as recorded in the minutes) loses his or her
> voting rights at the end of the second Meeting missed. If a TC has
> adopted a standing rule to conduct business only by electronic ballot,
> without Meetings, then a Voting Member who fails to cast a ballot in two
> consecutive Specification Ballots loses his or her voting rights at the
> close of the second ballot missed.
>    A Member who has lost his or her voting rights shall regain them for
> a TC that holds Meetings by attending two consecutive Meetings (as
> recorded in the minutes), thus regaining voting rights after the end of
> the second Meeting attended.  A Member of a TC that does not hold
> Meetings may regain voting rights by making a request to the chair(s) to
> regain them, effective 60 days after the request.  
>    Voting Members who lose their voting rights remain Members of the TC.
> A warning may be sent to the Member by the Chair, but the loss of voting
> rights is not dependent on the warning.
> Regards  Jamie
> ~   James Bryce Clark
> ~   Director, Standards Development, OASIS
> ~   jamie.clark@oasis-open.org

Eduardo Gutentag               |         e-mail: eduardo.gutentag@Sun.COM
Corporate Standards            |         Phone:  +1 510 550 4616 (internal x31442)
Sun Microsystems Inc.          |         W3C AC Rep / W3C AB / OASIS BoD

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