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Subject: Re: [cti] CybOX Containers in STIX

We understand the problem so much more now than we did back in DC.  And the in looking at the structure it really does not makes sense to have a STIX TLO  called cybox-container.  In DC it was all a bunch of hand-waving, we never actually spelled out the contents of the container.  But now that we have put pen to paper, it really does not fit or work.  

Further, if other standards want to use CybOX they can use it the same way that STIX and MAEC are going to use it.  MAEC for example is not going to use STIX objects to use CybOX data.  That just does not make sense.  



Bret Jordan CISSP
Director of Security Architecture and Standards | Office of the CTO
Blue Coat Systems
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"Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not be unscrambled is an egg." 

On Jun 24, 2016, at 03:15, Trey Darley <trey@kingfisherops.com> wrote:

On 23.06.2016 14:28:33, John-Mark Gurney wrote:

I will say that part of the reason that #2 was chosen at the F2F was
that there are use cases for other standards, like DFAX, where they
want to be able to reference the CybOX object directly. With #2, the
CybOX container now has a unique GUID that can be addressed, but as
was pointed out, this still doesn't prevent referncing the CybOX
data, as an implementation can refer to the GUID of the Observation

This was the infamous Arglebargle discussion, which was both heated
and long. Option #2 was a hard-won compromise to support the needs of
DFAX as expressed by Eoghan Casey et al.

Personally, I'm happy to go with option #1 for all the reasons
elucidated by John and Allan but in consideration of the many hours of
debate that went into the option #2 compromise, we should reenter that
discussion with sensitivity.

From a technical perspective it is not clear to me why DFAX couldn't
define its own container for CybOX, much as STIX and MAEC are doing.

If I recall correctly (and please weigh in here, good people of DC3!)
the primary motivation behind having a container object living in
CybOX land was DC3's desire to reuse CybOX observables^Wwhatever we're
calling them now across STIX, DFAX, and MAEC.

It's probably worth devoting the next TC working call to this topic,
since it's a critical question for STIX Indicators, Observations,
Sightings, not to mention the ongoing work of the CybOX SC and our
friends over at DC3.

Kingfisher Operations, sprl
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"It is easier to move a problem around (for example, by moving the
problem to a different part of the overall network architecture) than
it is to solve it." --RFC 1925

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