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Subject: Re: [cti] Git Submodules (was: RE: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open Repositories)


Greg has a lot of experience in the "nuts and bolts" of operationally managing GitHub repos in a diverse community collaboration environment.  This is not imply others here do not have similar expertise, but I would give extra consideration to Greg's recommendations on this basis.  Managing Pull requests, branches, distributions, releases etc. are key processes we need to consider in the final form of this new type of OASIS resource.

My .02: I'm leaning towards the concepts of TC specific organizations and separate repos for the different functional components managed by the TCs under this organization.

Patrick Maroney
President
Integrated Networking Technologies, Inc.
Desk: (856)983-0001
Cell: (609)841-5104
Email: pmaroney@specere.org

_____________________________
From: Back, Greg <gback@mitre.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 4:34 PM
Subject: [cti] Git Submodules (was: RE: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open Repositories)
To: Ted Bedwell (tebedwel) <tebedwel@cisco.com>, Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org>
Cc: Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>, <cti@lists.oasis-open.org>, Kirillov, Ivan A. <ikirillov@mitre.org>, Jason Keirstead <jason.keirstead@ca.ibm.com>, Bret Jordan (CS) <bret_jordan@symantec.com>


In my experience, Git submodules introduce a lot of confusion for people, and don't solve the "collection of disparate tools" problem very well. In contrast to Subversion, Git doesn't let you clone one part of a repo, but submodules aren't a great solution to that problem either. From what I've seen, submodules are best when one project A depends on a specific state of another project B, when it isn't easy to package up B, or you want to re-use B in multiple places For example.

* the STIX 1.2 schemas include CybOX 2.1 as a submodule.
* the CybOX Patterning Grammar could be split into its own repo, and the pattern validator could incorporate that as a submodule. You could also re-use the grammar in non-Python applications via this submodule. (note that this isn't currently the state of thing in the CTI OASIS Open repos).

If you wanted to re-use the pattern-validator in another project, it would make more sense to distribute the pattern-validator as a Python package than use a submodule. Not to keep bringing up pre-OASIS STIX/CybOX examples, but this is the approach used for "mixbox" in python-stix, python-cybox, and python-maec.

Greg


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 6:02 PM
> To: Ted Bedwell (tebedwel) <tebedwel@cisco.com>
> Cc: Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>; Bret Jordan (CS)
> <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>; cti@lists.oasis-open.org; Jason Keirstead
> <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>; Kirillov, Ivan A. <ikirillov@mitre.org>; Back,
> Greg <gback@mitre.org>
> Subject: Re: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open Repositories
>
> Another resource on submodules
>
> "Working with submodules" (February 01, 2016)
> https://github.com/blog/2104-working-with-submodules
>
>
> -rcc
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Ted Bedwell (tebedwel)
> <tebedwel@cisco.com <mailto:tebedwel@cisco.com> > wrote:
>
>
> For the other git neophytes out there:
>
> https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Tools-Submodules <https://git-
> scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Tools-Submodules>
>
> http://blogs.atlassian.com/2013/03/git-submodules-workflows-tips/
> <http://blogs.atlassian.com/2013/03/git-submodules-workflows-tips/>
>
>
>
> This seems like a viable approach.
>
>
>
> From: <cti@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-
> open.org> > on behalf of Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com
> <mailto:terry.macdonald@cosive.com> >
> Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 3:19 PM
> To: "Bret Jordan (CS)" <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com
> <mailto:Bret_Jordan@symantec.com> >
> Cc: "cti@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-
> open.org> " <cti@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> >,
> Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org <mailto:robin@oasis-open.org> >, Jason
> Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com
> <mailto:Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> >, "Kirillov, Ivan A."
> <ikirillov@mitre.org <mailto:ikirillov@mitre.org> >, "Back, Greg"
> <gback@mitre.org <mailto:gback@mitre.org> >
> Subject: Re: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open Repositories
>
>
>
> Couldn't we do a git repo containing submodules? Then each
> tool can have its own git repo, and it can be linked a submodules into the
> overall tools collection repo.
>
> This then makes it easy for everyone to get a copy of all three
> rows from one place, and yet we avoid the problems with many different
> people who only need access to parts of the git tree...
>
> Cheers
> Terry MacDonald
> Cosive
>
>
>
> On 4 Oct. 2016 9:09 am, "Bret Jordan (CS)"
> <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com <mailto:Bret_Jordan@symantec.com> >
> wrote:
>
> The problem with all of this is that it is not a collection
> of repos, but rather specific repos. Including multiple projects in a single
> repo is considered "bad form". Yes, you can do funky things with TAGS and
> you can even use different directories in the same repo. But that kind of
> break the git model. So instead of OASIS creating a oasis-open project with a
> bunch of arrant TC repos underneath, it seems like OASIS should setup a TC
> specific "projects". Then the TC can create as many repos on the project that
> it wants.
>
>
>
> Bret
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: cti@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-
> open.org> <cti@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> > on
> behalf of Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org <mailto:robin@oasis-
> open.org> >
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:28:43 AM
> To: Jason Keirstead
> Cc: Kirillov, Ivan A.; Back, Greg; OASIS CTI TC
> Discussion List; Robin Cover
> Subject: Re: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open
> Repositories
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Jason Keirstead
> <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com <mailto:Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> >
> wrote:
>
> RE "I don't quite understand your meaning
> here:
>
>
> "... so the public is basically only able to
> contribute to things that already exist, not contribute anything new (unless
> they proxy through a member)""
>
> It is basically tied back to the need, currently,
> to be a TC member and make a motion if you want to make a new repository
>
> OK, I understand. I'll raise the issue with Staff:
> can/should we support some means whereby a non-TC Member can easily
> make request for a new OASIS Open Repository where it's perceived that no
> existing Open Repository repository is suitable.
>
> , combined with these repositories being tied
> to very specific projects and not having a generic top-level repository.
>
> In the case at hand: the CTI TC can create an OASIS
> Open Repository described as "generic": that is your choice. I suppose you
> could also characterize some new OASIS Open Repository as "top-level"
> (notionally) if the TC members wanted to do that.
>
>
>
>
> Imagine a non-TC member has some brand
> new code they want to contribute, but it does not fall into any of these
> existing open repository categories, and we have no "generic" type of
> repository. They can not make a new repository, or even motion to make
> one, as they are not a TC member. They're stuck. The only way they could
> donate this code, would be to try to proxy through another TC member to
> get the repository created for them to commit it to. I strongly suspect that
> instead of that hassle they would just put it up on their own Github.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the clarification via examples. I'll certainly
> raise the issue with Staff. All such suggestions for improvement are
> welcome.
>
>
>
> Kindest regards and best wishes,
>
>
>
> - Robin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Jason Keirstead
> STSM, Product Architect, Security
> Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
> www.ibm.com/security
> <http://www.ibm.com/security> | www.securityintelligence.com
> <http://www.securityintelligence.com>
>
> Without data, all you are is just another
> person with an opinion - Unknown
>
>
> Robin Cover ---09/29/2016 09:28:30 AM---On
> Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com
> <mailto:Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org
> <mailto:robin@oasis-open.org> >
> To: Jason Keirstead/CanEast/IBM@IBMCA
> Cc: "Kirillov, Ivan A." <ikirillov@mitre.org
> <mailto:ikirillov@mitre.org> >, "Back, Greg" <gback@mitre.org
> <mailto:gback@mitre.org> >, OASIS CTI TC Discussion List <cti@lists.oasis-
> open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> >, Robin Cover <robin@oasis-
> open.org <mailto:robin@oasis-open.org> >
> Date: 09/29/2016 09:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open
> Repositories
> Sent by: <cti@lists.oasis-open.org
> <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> >
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Jason
> Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com
> <mailto:Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> > wrote:
>
> I hear what you are saying and there are
> definitely pros and cons to having some more generic repositories - but I am
> trying to envision the near future where we will hopefully have a whole
> bunch of various code contributions from vendors, members and hopefully
> non-members alike. This is just my opinion of course, but I think we should
> try to make the process to contribute code to the TC as light-weight as
> possible, to encourage people to contribute to our open repositories vs. just
> throw it up on their own Github account - as if they do that, then IPR and
> access is not as assured. Having to make a motion to create a new repository
> every time someone wants to contribute some new code, is a fairly
> heavyweight process in my opinion. It also means that only TC members can
> contribute any "new things", because the public can't trigger a vote on
> making a new repository - so the public is basically only able to contribute to
> things that already exist, not contribute anything new (unless they proxy
> through a member).
>
>
> Jason, I'll raise the matter of requiring a
> motion/ballot with Staff. We probably want some kind of confirmation from
> the TC Chairs(s) -- indicating that there was consensus on the key elements
> of the request (name, Maintainers, choice of FOSS license, etc)
>
> Re:
> > a whole bunch of various code
> contributions from vendors, members and hopefully non-members alike
>
> That sounds great, and OASIS Open
> Repositories are intended to support that. It's a TC decision whether you
> want more or fewer repositories. It's a TC decision as to whether the repos
> are described as "generic" or having closely defined focus.
>
> I don't quite understand your meaning here:
>
> "... so the public is basically only able to
> contribute to things that already exist, not contribute anything new (unless
> they proxy through a member)"
>
> For the OASIS Open Repositories, once the
> repo is created, anyone from "the public" (non-TC member) can be a full
> participant, including Maintainer, per consensus. They can contribute "new
> things" in the same way as anyone can contribute new things to any GitHub
> public repository. Perhaps I misunderstand your concern....
>
> I have assumed, maybe incorrectly, that your
> mention of a new repository (additional to those reported by Greg Back [1])
> meant you want a new OASIS Open Repository ( https://www.oasis-
> open.org/resources/open-repositories <https://www.oasis-
> open.org/resources/open-repositories> )
>
> - Robin
>
>
> [1]
>
> cti-stix2-json-schemas
> cti-pattern-validator
> cti-marking-prototype
> cti-stix-visualization
> cti-stix-validator
> cti-documentation
> cti-cybox3-json-schemas
>
>
>
>
> -
> Jason Keirstead
> STSM, Product Architect, Security
> Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
> www.ibm.com/security
> <http://www.ibm.com/security> | www.securityintelligence.com
> <http://www.securityintelligence.com/>
>
> Without data, all you are is just another
> person with an opinion - Unknown
>
>
> Robin Cover ---09/28/2016 10:35:01 PM---
> Jason, The decision about creating something like "stix-tools" is (of course) a
>
> From: Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org
> <mailto:robin@oasis-open.org> >
> To: Jason Keirstead/CanEast/IBM@IBMCA
> Cc: "Kirillov, Ivan A." <ikirillov@mitre.org
> <mailto:ikirillov@mitre.org> >, "Back, Greg" <gback@mitre.org
> <mailto:gback@mitre.org> >, OASIS CTI TC Discussion List <cti@lists.oasis-
> open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> >, Robin Cover <robin@oasis-
> open.org <mailto:robin@oasis-open.org> >
> Date: 09/28/2016 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open
> Repositories
> Sent by: <cti@lists.oasis-open.org
> <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> >
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
> Jason,
>
> The decision about creating something like
> "stix-tools" is (of course) a decision for the TC members, and I have no horse
> in the race.
>
> Some might think "-tools" itself is too broad,
> and encourage minting a name more specific to the kind of tool (or tools) you
> want to develop in the repository.
>
> One of the OASIS (SSO/SDO) peers has taken
> a position that specific-purpose GitHub repos works well, as opposed to (an
> arguably equally competent) design that uses folders within a single
> repository. Using separate repos means less work (design work, workday-
> work) when creating and applying labels to issues and pull requests: you
> don't have to permute out name elements that are scoped to the sub-
> projects within the repo. Just use one taxonomy of types/labels without
> namespace worries. And: you can five write privs to relatively more of the
> interested parties with fewer discussions about (uh) "who can/should "
> maintain which sub-projects...
>
> But as always: it's up to the TC, and I am no
> expert here.
>
> - Robin
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Jason
> Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com
> <mailto:Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> > wrote:
>
> Hello all;
>
> IBM has been developing a STIX 2 generator,
> useful for testing tools. It is rudimentary at this point, but we will continue to
> improve upon it - and would like to share it with the community for both
> collaboration and improvement.
>
> It doesn't seem to fit into any of these
> repositories as they are named so specifically. Should we make some more
> generic one called something like "stix-tools" to cover this and also future
> potential contributions that would not fit into these buckets?
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device, please excuse
> any typos.
>
> Kirillov, Ivan A. --- Re: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS
> Open Repositories ---
>
> From:
>
> "Kirillov, Ivan A." <ikirillov@mitre.org <mailto:ikirillov@mitre.org> >
>
> To:
>
> "Back, Greg" <gback@mitre.org <mailto:gback@mitre.org> >, cti@lists.oasis-
> open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org>
>
> Date:
>
> Wed, Sep 28, 2016 2:09 PM
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: [cti] Status of CTI OASIS Open Repositories
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Great news! Trey and I hope to begin
> populating the CybOX 3 JSON schema repo soon :-)
>
> Regards,
> Ivan
>
> On 9/28/16, 12:04 PM, "cti@lists.oasis-
> open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Back, Greg"
> <cti@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:cti@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of
> gback@mitre.org <mailto:gback@mitre.org> > wrote:
>
> >The following OASIS Open repositories have
> been created and populated with content that MITRE has been developing
> on behalf of DHS.
> >
> >- cti-stix2-json-schemas
> >- cti-pattern-validator
> >- cti-marking-prototype
> >- cti-stix-visualization
> >- cti-stix-validator
> >
> >There are two other repositories that exist,
> but do not (yet) have any content:
> >
> >- cti-documentation
> >- cti-cybox3-json-schemas
> >
> >The open repositories are meant to assist
> with the development of the TC's work products (but do not contain work
> products directly). Both TC members and non-members are able to
> contribute to the repositories, but in order to do so, you must sign a
> Contributor License Agreement (CLA): https://www.oasis-
> open.org/resources/open-repositories/cla <https://www.oasis-
> open.org/resources/open-repositories/cla> . This applies *even to TC
> members*.
> >
> >We welcome participation from other
> members of the TC (or even non-members who have an interest in the TC's
> work). Please use GitHub for any issues/enhancement requests for the
> code/schemas themselves. Feel free to respond to this email if you have
> questions about the process, etc.
> >
> >You can find the repositories here:
> https://github.com/oasis-open <https://github.com/oasis-open>
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Greg Back
> >MITRE
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> >To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must
> leave the OASIS TC that
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> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php>
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>





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