Thanks Robin,
Scott/Jamie, it would seem that this is a
fallacy. I assume that Robin would have the ability as a member to send to
the list?
jDT
J. Darrel Thomas
EDS - Hosting Services, Infrastructure Portfolio
MS H3-5A-34
5400 Legacy Drive
Plano, Texas 75024
( Phone:+1-972-797-9695(8-837)
+ mailto:Darrel.Thomas@eds.com
From: Robin Basham [mailto:robinbasham@rcn.com]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004
11:58 AM
To: 'Thomas, Darrel'
Subject: RE: [dcml-appserv]
Datacenter Service Hierarchy
Hi Darrel,
My emails bounce back at me. I sent
to the admin for the email gateway, as instructed in the bounce. This is
an FYI that I can't mail to the list.
Robin
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Phoenix Business & Systems Process, Inc.
120 Central Avenue
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http://www.pbandsp.com
Office 781 400 1449 / Mobile 617 947 3405 / Fax 781 400 1443
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From: Thomas, Darrel [mailto:darrel.thomas@eds.com]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004
11:22 AM
To: Cummins, Fred A; 'Andre Kramer'; 'Mark Darbyshire'; 'Barak Perlman'; 'dcml-appserv@lists.oasis-open.org'
Subject: RE: [dcml-appserv]
Datacenter Service Hierarchy
Again, if I look at the thread here, this
all sounds like the same thoughts. And, while a hierarchy might seem
constrictive, it is useful for a start to our work, and we can always look at
how to separate it along the lines of autonomous services outside the IT
environment. Our first focus has to be the datacenter, and then
out.
J. Darrel Thomas
EDS - Hosting Services, Infrastructure Portfolio
MS H3-5A-34
5400 Legacy Drive
Plano, Texas 75024
( Phone:+1-972-797-9695(8-837)
+ mailto:Darrel.Thomas@eds.com
From: Cummins, Fred A
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004
9:26 AM
To: Andre Kramer; Thomas, Darrel; 'Mark Darbyshire'; Barak Perlman; dcml-appserv@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dcml-appserv]
Datacenter Service Hierarchy
I think a hierarchical representation is
too restrictive. It may be
useful to classify services according to
their usage as
business services or IT services
reflecting their use within
a data center (IT service) or potential
exposure outside a
data center (business service) or to
different business units.
We should distinguish services from
resources as fundamentally
different. Define a service as an
interface, i.e., an offering which
may include a collection of operations or
processes. From
the service perspective, it may be
implemented with a
variety of resources, including humans and
hardware as well as
resources applied by other services.
But resources are how
a service is implemented, not the definition
of the service.
So when we look at a resource, we can
identify the services
that use it. When we look at a
service, we can consider the
resources it uses directly
to implement it as well as other services
it uses and the resources that implement
them.
A business service may invoke other
business services as well
as IT services. Some IT services may
invoke business services
(although this is less
common) related to such things as
billing, security administration, change
management, etc.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Andre Kramer
[mailto:andre.kramer@eu.citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004
6:17 AM
To: 'Thomas, Darrel'; 'Mark Darbyshire'; Barak Perlman; dcml-appserv@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dcml-appserv]
Datacenter Service Hierarchy
The hierarchy should also capture
middleware services. Obviously, terminal services and MetaFrame presentation
server should be a modeled layer. I'm also a member of the OASIS WSRP TC and
Portlets as well as their producer & consumer services are another form of
user facing presentation services.
Regards,
Andre
Andre Kramer,
Citrix Systems, Inc.
From: Thomas, Darrel [mailto:darrel.thomas@eds.com]
Sent: 20 December 2004 02:38
To: 'Mark Darbyshire'; Barak Perlman; dcml-appserv@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dcml-appserv]
Datacenter Service Hierarchy
hello Barak/Mark,
I think we're on the same page with the
hierarchy, I'd like to see it in diagrammed form with definitions, as we were
attempting to do such at our last DCML.org mtg. I believe that Industry
Services are directly pointed at vertical business sectors that are repeatable
in their domain (I.e., Healthcare, Travel and Transportation, Government,
Security & Privacy, Manufacturing, Automotive, etc.). These in turn
are decomposed into Business Process Services, then decomposed to IT Services
(or App/Web Services) to IT Services, to Resources/ManagedElements.
Another thought would be to look at the
ITIL aspects as parts of the Framework section of DCML, which is where the
management oversight happens that would govern inputs from Apps/Services.
I'd like to see other opinions here...
So, would Printing and Directory Services
be considered foundational IT Services? Likely. how about AAA, or IT
domain Services, such as Network IP Services, or Storage compositive services
(on TOP of a storage resource, SAN, port, IP address, etc.).
we should enumerate a comprehensive list
to to the hierarchy correctly...
jDT
BTW, I also believe that we should leave
human resources out of the work right now - we're trying to discern the
electronics ready aspects of DCML. the human aspects are the dynamics
that inhibit the standardization, but must be factored in their relationships
to managed things in the environment that DCML articulates.
From: Mark
Darbyshire [mailto:markd@tibco.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004
6:58 PM
To: Barak Perlman; dcml-appserv@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [dcml-appserv]
Datacenter Service Hierarchy
Barak,
I'll add my view. I understood Business to have its normal 'non-technical'
meaning and that (as we're all in IT) an IT Service would be a possible
implementation of a component or function of such and such a business. Example:
I think CRM is a component of an IT implementation of the business of a call
center. This is obviously not the only use of a CRM and equally a call center
can be implemented without one. So, in short, I support your new hierarchy, but
I would like to see a seperation (still) of Business Process and IT Service.
Also, I think we've tried to keep humans out of this so far.
As an aside, I think we've kept humans out of the DCML purview. I for one would
like to continue in this vein. What do others think?
I hope I've provided some clarification,
MarkD.
Barak Perlman wrote:
Hi,
Following our discussions from last week I want to
comment on the Datacenter Service Hierarchy presented.
This actually relates to the definitions of the terms
we use.
The terms used in the proposed hierarchy are:
- Resource ->
ManagedElement
There are no suggested definitions for those terms
(not any that I found in the DCML docs that is).
I looked for reference at the terms used in the ITIL
for example:
Industry - isn't
defined
Business - isn't an
item by itself (a business unit is for example)
Service (referring to IT service)
Resources
System
Host is what we call a server, including the
application running on it
I suggest we first define the following:
- Everything one can manage can
be a ManagedElement, not just the Resources. An IT service, one is sure to
manage, for example can be a ManagedElement as well.
- As suggested, a resource can be
any combination of resources as well.
- An IT service is easily
defined. It could also be comprised of a combination of any IT services.
- By a business I think we should
refer to an IT service that serves a business purpose. The term that was
used was Business Process Service, why not keep it?
- Industry still needs better
definition
Specific examples would get us going easily...
- A server is a resource
- A bunch of servers are yet
another resource
- A Storage device is a resource
- An IT personnel is a resource
- A web service is an IT service
- A naming service is an IT
service
- Printing is an IT service
- CRM is a business (I suggest we
call it a business process service)
- A call center is a business (I
suggest we call it a business process service)
Some questions and suggestions
- As the name of the TC goes -
what is an application?
- I think that by application we
actually refer types of Services
- How do we relate to the
Networking TC?
- Is Networking a Resource?
- Is Networking a Service?
- I suggest we let Networking be
a combination of Resources and Services
- How do we refer to the SW
application part of the service?
- We defined the web application
by a group of resources but the web application doesn't have to be part
of the resources
- How do we refer to the web
application SW?
- We can enlarge the server
resource as the ITIL does to include the application it runs. This would
mean that a service is comprised of physical resources, logical resources
(i.e. application SW) and human resources
- How do we differ between IT
services and business process services?
- I think we should allow both
of them to be types of services
- The only difference is the
User/Customer perspective
- This means that Business
Process Services are just another type of services
The new proposed hierarchy looks like:
- Industry (needs better
definition)
- Services - Business Process
Services, IT services
- Resource - Physical
Resources, Logical Resources, Human Resources
Where all of the above can be ManagedElements.
Barak Perlman
VP
R&D
Direct +972 3 608 1604
Office +972 3 607 4243
Fax +972 3 607 4242
Cell +972 545 245 604
--
Mark Darbyshire, Ph.D.
Senior Solution Consultant,
TIBCO Software
Phone: +1 9175433099 / +33 688457575