RE: [dcml-frame] Meeting info

["Andre Kramer" <andre.kramer@eu.citrix.com>]

Hi Fred,

Just to note that your scheme fits into my proposal at some level, as
XML is used to exchange models defined using some OO modeling language.
But the proposal is open to diverse approaches, based on the existing
"Semantic Web" modeling as a unifying abstraction tool.

I agree we could define such a single model, or leverage one of several
existing standards, but a framework based on ontologies would be able to
handle more than one such language - opening the door to others.

Which leads me to the question that I think the first action requested
answered. Exactly how is UML to be used here? XMI (and MOF) seems to be
overly sophisticated (express general "programming" OO models) and if we
(or others sub-set UML encoded as XML) don't we just invent our own
language?

This, I claim, would not be too different to the "Class, SubClassOf,
instanceOf, Property" language I mentioned in the proposal. But I would
not force all user of DCML to use this exact modeling approach (not very
rich).

On the other hand, if we have a concrete single proposal for a data
center modeling language based on reuse of an existing management
standard then DCML as framework may also be in danger of too much
overlap with the existing std (if it is to be the only one supported).

Regards,
Andre

-----Original Message-----
From: Cummins, Fred A [mailto:fred.cummins@eds.com] 
Sent: 07 March 2005 16:39
To: Andre Kramer; Tim Howes; dcml-frame@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dcml-frame] Meeting info

I'm not sure what is expected in response to the first item
in Tim's action list.  I thought my comments in an earlier
message, attached for reference, were pretty clear.

I disagree with Andre's manifesto.  While it may be interesting
and avant guard to develop a data center ontology, this is not
current practice in developing systems or data standards.  Such
an effort can take on a life of its own and still fail to 
provide the necessary foundation for consistent standards.

What is needed is a consistent data model.  Such a model will
be more flexible and consistent with current implementation 
technology if done with classes (i.e., OO model).

XML is not a data modeling language--it's a language for 
specification and expression of records or messages.  There
is no way you can develop and manage a consistent data center
data model in XML.

As a practical matter, develop of a comprehensive data model
will only delay development of standards since there is no
way to get it right or complete the first time.  It's fine
to start a data model with the more obvious things, but after
that let specific standards drive its refinement.

It seems to me that CIM and WSDM have proven an approach.
They both appear to have used UML to develop their shared data
models and XML to specify the data to be exchanged.  Use of
UML would then also make it easier for DCML to be consistent
with these existing standards.

Fred

Fred


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre Kramer [mailto:andre.kramer@eu.citrix.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:25 AM
> To: Tim Howes; dcml-frame@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [dcml-frame] Meeting info
> 
> 
> Please see attached for second action.
> 
> Regards,
> Andre
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Howes [mailto:howes@opsware.com] 
> Sent: 01 March 2005 17:44
> To: dcml-frame@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [dcml-frame] Meeting info
> 
> Attendees: Tim Howes, Andre Kramer, Barak Perlman,
>             Josh Sirota
> 
> Actions from today's call:
> 
> - Fred (in absentia) with assistance from Barak to
>    produce concrete UML proposal for DCML.
> 
> - Andre to send to list idea for DCML's relationship
>    to other standards (e.g., CIM, etc.).
> 
> - Tim to investigate face-to-face WG meeting at
>    end of April OASIS meeting or earlier.
> 
> - Ajay (in absentia) to extend ITIL use cases to
>    next level of detail, making clear where DCML
>    comes in.
> 
> Tim Howes wrote:
> > Hi all. We will be having our bi-weekly framework
> > working group call tomorrow. Here's the info:
> > 
> > Time: 9:00am - 10:00am PST
> > Dial-in: +1 888 772-1825
> > Passcode: 4087447509
> > 
> > Agenda:
> > 
> > - Introduction and roll call
> > - Agenda review
> > - Partner recruitment update
> > - Alternate proposal review
> > - ITIL use case review
> > - Any other business
> > 
> > See you all tomorrow.              -- Tim
>