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Subject: RE: [dita] conref source and target [was: Why There are Constraints on Conref]


Title: Re: [dita] conref source and target [was: Why There are Constraints on Conref]
Gotta appreciate the sense of humor!
 
But the locus of mischief isn't actually at the conref-bearing element, is it?
 
Maybe too verbose as handy labels, but we are talking about the conref-bearing element and the content-bearing element.


From: Joann Hackos [mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 11:21 AM
To: Bruce Nevin (bnevin); Michael Priestley; Scott Prentice
Cc: DITA TC; Anderson Robert
Subject: Re: [dita] conref source and target [was: Why There are Constraints on Conref]

Well, that would make the plural loci. We could try Loki, the Norse god of mischief, might be more appropriate.
JoAnn


On 9/30/09 11:32 AM, "Bruce Nevin (bnevin)" <bnevin@cisco.com> wrote:

Locus element?

It specifies the location at which the content will be rendered.

    
/Bruce


 

From: Michael Priestley  [mailto:mpriestl@ca.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009  1:09 PM
To: Scott Prentice
Cc: dita; Robert D  Anderson
Subject: Re: [dita] conref source and target [was: Why  There are Constraints on Conref]

 

maybe "referencing element" and  "target element" or "reused element"?

Michael Priestley, Senior Technical Staff Member (STSM)
Lead IBM  DITA Architect
mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25 <http://dita.xml.org/blog/25>  


   
 
From:  Scott Prentice  <sp@leximation.com>  
 
To:  Robert D Anderson  <robander@us.ibm.com>  
 
Cc:  dita  <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>  
 
Date:  09/30/2009 12:55 PM  
 
Subject:  Re: [dita] conref source and target  [was: Why There are Constraints on Conref]





I think that the key point of possible confusion  is the term "source."
The "target" of an href/conref (I assume these  concepts equally apply to
xrefs/links/topicrefs as well?) is clearly the  element that is
referenced by that attribute, but calling the file or  element that's
doing the referencing the "source" doesn't really make much  sense to me.
This becomes particularly confusing to authors because the  term "source"
in "single sourcing" typically refers to the content that is  being
reused, which in this situation would be the "target."

It  does seem that we might want to make an effort to standardize on some  
terminology, and I for one would vote for not using the term "source"  
for either end of this chain. As Jeff suggests, perhaps we should come  
up with terms that can be used which are less ambiguous.

For the  href/conref end, perhaps (just throwing out ideas, none seem all
that good  though) ..
- referencing element
- container
- referencer (yuck)
-  caller

And for the other end, perhaps ..
- referenced element
-  target

.. hmm, there must be better  terms.

...scott



Robert D Anderson wrote:
> In all  of the material I've added to the spec, I've referred to the
> "target"  as the item pointed to by the conref attribute. Like Eliot, I've
>  thought of conref as an address, which points to a target. However,  I've
> always recognized some confusion with source/target on their own,  so when I
> talk about it, I usually try to call it "the target of the  conref
> attribute" to try and be explicit.
>
> Not sure  that helps any, but it means if we go the other way, I know all of
> the  conref material I've put in the spec needs to be reversed.
>
>  Robert D Anderson
> IBM Authoring Tools Development
> Chief  Architect, DITA Open Toolkit
>
> "Ogden, Jeff"  <jogden@ptc.com> wrote on 09/30/2009 08:22:01 AM:
>
>    
>> "Ogden, Jeff" <jogden@ptc.com>
>> 09/30/2009 08:22  AM
>>
>> To
>>
>>  <tself@hyperwrite.com>, "dita"  <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>
>>  cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> RE: [dita] conref  source and target [was: Why There are Constraints on
>>      
> Conref]
>   
>> While I agree that we need to be  consistent, the terms "source" and
>> "target" used alone will always  be ambiguous. I think we need to avoid
>> using them and come up with  new terms or phrases to describe the two
>> locations.  My  problem, having said that, is that I'm not feeling
>> particularly  creative and don't have any really good alternatives to
>>  suggest.
>>
>> Some "not so good"  possibilities:
>>
>>    "conref location" (the  location with the element that has the conref
>>  attribute)
>>    "conref content location" or "content  location" (the location with
>> the content that is being  reused)
>>
>>    -Jeff
>>
>>      
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: Tony Self [mailto:tself@hyperwrite.com
<mailto:tself@hyperwrite.com> ]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:26  PM
>>> To: 'dita'
>>> Subject: RE: [dita] Why There  are Constraints on Conref
>>>
>>> In the context of  single-sourcing, it seems more logical to call the
>>>  single
>>> source of many content references the source, and the  places in which
>>> that
>>> single blob of content is  used the target. But I totally get Eliot's
>>>  point
>>> that in the context of linking, the target of the link  is the source!
>>>
>>> Obviously, we need to be  consistent one way or the other!
>>>
>>>  Tony
>>>
>>> -----Original  Message-----
>>> From: ekimber [mailto:ekimber@reallysi.com
<mailto:ekimber@reallysi.com> ]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 September 2009 12:26  PM
>>> To: Kristen James Eberlein
>>> Cc: Ogden, Jeff;  tself@hyperwrite.com; dita
>>> Subject: Re: [dita] Why There are  Constraints on Conref
>>>
>>> On 9/29/09 9:22 PM,  "Kristen James Eberlein" <keberlein@pobox.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> I'm glad that Tony brought this up. The DITA spec -- and  other
>>>> documentation -- is inconsistent about this.About  50% follows Tony's
>>>> definition of source and target, and  another 50% uses the opposite
>>>>  construction.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, it make  sense to me that "source" contains the actual
>>>> content --  the content that gets pulled or pushed into else where
>>>>          
>>> (the
>>>        
>>>> "target"), but I'd really like to know if  this contradicts some
>>>>          
>>> formal
>>>        
>>>> definition of source and target ....
>>>>          
>>> If you think of conref as a link  (which I do), then source is the
>>> anchor
>>> that  does the addressing and target is the thing  addressed.
>>>
>>> However, I can see the logic in  thinking about conref the other way
>>>  around.
>>>
>>> But the spec should definitely be  consistent.
>>>
>>> I discount my opinion on this  matter because I'm too deeply versed in
>>> the
>>>  arcana of linking and addressing. I would support whatever  option
>>> people
>>> think is more intuitive or  easier to talk about clearly.
>>>
>>>  Cheers,
>>>
>>>  E.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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