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Subject: Revised: DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 18 Mar 2003
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I failed to distinguish between Mark and Dick a couple of times. Sorry, guys. / Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> was heard to say: | | DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 18 Mar 2003 | | ======================================================== | | | | The DocBook Technical Committee will met on Tuesday, 18 Mar 2003 | | at 01:00p EST (10:00a PST, 18:00GMT, 19:00CET, 03:00JST+) | | for 90 minutes. | [...] | | Agenda | | | | 1. Roll call | | Steve Cogorno | Paul Grosso | Dick Hamilton | Nancy Harrison | Scott Hudson | Mark Johnson | Bob Stayton | Norman Walsh | | Absent: | | Michael Smith | | Norm explains ongoing problems with OASIS mail/web servers. | | | 2. Accepting the minutes of the previous meeting | | Accepted. | | | 3. Review of the agenda | | Accepted. | | | 4. Review of open action items {5 min} | | | | a. Norm to follow-up on RFE 562343: <packagename> element | Continued. | | b. Norm to write better documentation for option/optional | Continued. | | c. Norm to post simplified ToC proposal to the list again | Continued. | | d. Steve to provide a first draft of a requirements document for task/topic. | Completed. | | e. Mike to post summary of annotations. | Completed. | | f. Dick to ask local expert about annotations. | Completed. | | g. Bob to post concrete example of associate purposes with components in | | refentries (Allow reference within refentry) | Completed. | | ACTION: Norm to make an agenda item for next month. | | | h. Norm to propose a new content model for mediaobjectco to bring | | it back in sync with mediaobject | Continued. | | i. Bob to amend the RFE 558443 (storage info in metadata) and then close it | Completed. | | j. Mike to summarize the URL/URN markup issue and propose a new URI element with | | appropriate attribute names and values | Completed. | | k. Norm to ask Tony/Paul for a summary of what is missing from | | DocBook to support proper mixed bidi text. | Completed. | | ACTION: Norm to post concrete proposal for this. | | | l. Norm to put RFE 623524 ((re)consider choicelist markup) on the agenda | Completed. | | m. Bob to review the list of bibliography elements and see which | | ones make sense in paragraph. Orgname is requested here, we already | | allow author and corpauthor. What about others? | | (Related to REF #679316 Allow orgname tag within paragraphs) | Completed. | | ACTION: Norm to make an agenda item for next month. | | | n. Norm to ask Denis Evans for his opinions on REF #686733, allow | | bibliography under <refentry> | Continued. | | o. Norm to put releaseing 4.3 or 5.0 or whatever's next on the agenda | Completed. | | 4b. HTML tables in DocBook | | Paul: My understanding was that I'd made my case and it was rejected. | I still believe what I believe, but I'm happy to go with whatever the | TC wants to decide. The more important question is how the TC wants to | respond to other public comment. | | Bob: I was thinking about the idea of cutting and pasting because of | the content models inside the table cells. That doesn't work because | of markup in the cells. In my corpus, most tables have markup. You'd | have to do a conversion anyway. Subsequent discussion has indicated | that it's just the element names that need to be allowed, they just | want a familiar set of tags. | | Nancy: If people want to use HTML tag names, they still have a | different structure. The structure they're used to using those tag | names in won't work anyway. | | Bob: You can form a table and use the HTML tag names until you get | into the cell content. | | Norm: It is true that the tables could be identical if there was no | entry-level markup. And there would be more presentational attributes | in the HTML case. | | Steve: I think if we put an implementation in, we're still going to | get complaints because users are used to being able to do a wide | variety of things that wouldn't be valid. | | Steve/Paul debate the merits of supporting users or tools. | | Nancy: Cut and paste isn't going to work in either direction. | | Paul: What are we trying to do here? | | Steve: We already get a lot of questions about what to do with markup, | if we look at it as a recommendation of good tagging structure, we can | give good advice. | | Norm argues that the mental transition from XHTML to CALS is | significant and a body of users would find DocBook easier to learn if | they didn't have to make that transition. | | Nancy: My recollection is that the way that we propose it's | implemented you would choose one or another model. | | Bob: But the DTD couldn't enforce it. | | Norm: The DTD can't enforce every model, but it isn't that bad. | | Bob: What about htable? | | Norm: htable would still have to contain tbody. | | Steve: Is the 5.0 DTD going to be XML only? Couldn't we use namespaces? | | Norm: Most people are using DTDs and I don't think we can abandon that | for a while. | | Norm: I'm concerned that people will make a non-interoperable DTD to | support XHTML tables. | | Some discussion of what interoperable and subsets mean. | | Nancy: Can we take a straw poll on whether people are willing to | include HTML tables or not? | | Dick: That would depend on how it's implemented. (Incorrect attribution) Mark: That would depend on how it's implemented. | Discussion of Paul's proposal. | | Norm: If we used the Strict HTML, then you wouldn't get the | presentational attributes. | | Straw Poll: Are you willing to include XHTML tables in DocBook along | the lines of Paul's earlier proposed DTD changes? | | Steve Cogorno N | Paul Grosso Y | Dick Hamilton Y | Nancy Harrison Y | Scott Hudson Y | Mark Johnson Y (with reservations) | Bob Stayton Y | Norman Walsh abstain | | Nancy: I think we've had a new data point, the users have asked us and | so I think the users have demonstrated that it's important. | | ACTION: Paul to review how his proposal would change if we went with Strict | instead of Transitional. | | | 5. Releasing V4.3 or V5.0 | | Bob: I'd like to see a list of all the things we've approved and see | if any of them require 5.0. | | ACTION: Norm to produce that summary. | | Bob: This also has implications for announcing 6.0. | | Steve: Can we do both? Release 4.3 and 5.0. | | Bob: The distinction is that we'd do the approved changes that aren't | backwards compatible in 4.3. | | Proposal: Release 4.3 sooner rather than later. | | (General agreement) | | Dick: I have mixed feelings, 4.3 is easier to sell here, but at the | same time I understand your concerns about getting to a 5.0. | | Proposed: Move discussion until next month. | | | 6. Choicelist markup | | ACTION: Norm to put on the agenda for next month. | | | 7. Annotations | | Dick: The presentational questions were some of our thoughts. The | biggest reason we would use would be to provide an HTML title-like | format. This introduces some co-constraint issues: you might want to | have the content model only contain #PCDATA if the class attribute was | title. | | Bob: What other uses does it have? It seems like structure could be useful. | | Norm: Yes, I think you'd need to allow structure even if it could make | for problematic display in some circumstances. | | Paul: We need to make sure that we know what we're doing. I'm | particularly concerned about some of the presentational expectations. | | Post to docbook list (not docbook-tc) for email discussion. | | ACTION: Norm to put on the agenda for next month. | | | 8. Review of Requests for Enhancement | | | | To browse a specific RFE, enter the URL (on one line): | | | | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail& | | group_id=21935&atid=384107&aid=XXXX | | | | where XXXX is the RFE number. | | | | 691762 syntax="" | | Mailing list archive is inaccessible. Return to this item next week. | | | 697374 marking up keycaps according to their semantics | | Norm summarizes the RFE. | | Bob: It seems like there's a semantic meaning associated with certain | keys that isn't captured by the sequence of characters on the | keyboard. | | Steve: There are a lot of keys. It's going to be a really long list. | | Dick: We could start with the intersection and leave an escape hatch. (Incorrect attribution) Mark: We could start with the intersection and leave an escape hatch. | ACTION: Bob to write concrete proposal. | | | 698844 Add PDF to notation.class | | Accepted. | | | 705246 html/docbook.xsl should generate <!DOCTYPE> | | Misfiled. | | ADJOURNED. | | | 436067 splitting tech.char.class | | 473365 Allow optional in funcprototype | | 482818 Simplify ToC content model | | 514435 Allow reference within refentry | | 541444 caption in mediaobjectco | | 558443 include storage info in metadata | | 562343 <packagename> element | | 565637 Associate non-inline image with link | | 565716 URL and URN markup | | 573419 Add bidirectional text overrides | | 582822 VARARG and FUNCDEF together | | 623524 (Re)Consider "choicelist" markup | | 638456 RFE add a <translator> tag | | 655526 funcprototype enhancement | | 660044 Controlling line numbering in verbatims | | 679316 Allow orgname tag within paragraphs | | 686733 allow bibliography under <refentry> | | | | The following RFEs are awaiting action items | | | | 413389 Enhance METHODNAME and VARNAME | | 431411 RFE 70: add generic linking capability | | 522552 Add title attribute to <ulink> element | | 574880 Add annotation element | | 613293 Generalize programlisting | | 621564 New element Task and children | | | | The following RFEs are identified as V6.0 or later | | | | 531851 Remove inline person name elements | | 532088 Remove RevHistory from qandaentry Be seeing you, norm - -- Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | If youth is a fault, it is one http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | soon corrected.--Goethe Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.7 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQE+d4BQOyltUcwYWjsRAh6kAJ9BGmUK+fIODVgDhhu7t5HJ/ottkQCeNzr6 ng4gesHqb9f1QDZBFxi912U= =0dit -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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