Re: [ebxml-bp] RE: ebBP / BPMN extensions

[Patrick Yee <kcyee@cecid.hku.hk>]

Dear David and Monica,
Thanks David for the clear explanation, as clear as he were in the team. 
:-) There is no BPSS processing in our project, as David has pointed 
out, and we have "hard-coded" the business process into a Java program. 
It turns out that most of the cases we encountered will be running 
perfectly fine with this "hard-code" approach. In other words, the 
processes we encountered are fairly simple. We are not try to say that 
our cases are general to the world, nor we are trying to discourage the 
development BPSS. However, one thing we believe is, in the early stage, 
enterprises are not ready to implement complex flows in BPSS (and BPEL). 
My view is, the road to adoption of BP specs is still tough. Just my $0.02.
Regards, -Patrick


David RR Webber wrote:

>Monica,
>
>Since I'm deeply into these weeds...and Patrick did not write this code...
>
>There is in fact a very clear separation between transport, messaging, and what
>the application is doing in this Hermes setup.
>
>They have done a nice job with the Hermes component - and key is the use of
>persisted inbound and outbound queues.  This is classic messaging theory.
>Its extensible (add more applications) - and scalable (add servers).
>
>So the example interface is designed as a lightweight servlet that people can
>deploy to 'glue' between Hermes and a backend application.  Obviously there are
>other ways of doing it - and there are 'chunks' as I noted - that are missing
>between this and a full BSI.
>
>But given that - its a good step and instructive - and they've also documented
>it very nicely.
>
>Now - of course they have no BPSS processing!  So that would be the next step
>here - once we have BPSS V2 finished - to show how to use BPSS XML instances
>from business processes in tandem with this setup.
>
>Various ways of doing that beckon...and I was merely pointing out that this path
>could lead somewhere quickly that would be a nice 'win' for everyone.
>
>Cheers, DW.
>
>Quoting "Monica J. Martin" <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>:
>
>  
>
>>>Webber: Currently I'm looking at ebMS and essentially the BSI around that -
>>>      
>>>
>>there's an
>>    
>>
>>>excellent document here:
>>>
>>>http://ebs.mardep.gov.hk/xmldg/doc/XMLDG-TIR.pdf
>>>
>>>that covers off ebMS BSI stuff (not all - but a chunk!).
>>>
>>>This is the kind of thing I'd see we could develop WRT BSI for BPSS. 
>>>      
>>>
>>Especially
>>    
>>
>>>the supporting infrastructure and components maps, and the functional flow
>>>      
>>>
>>and
>>    
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>>>agents needed.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>mm1:  Patrick, I briefly reviewed this document and it seems (at first 
>>glance) that the team has integrated a data handler, application server 
>>and the business functions that may happen either in a BSI or behind 
>>it.  I also see some blurring of the lines between what is transport vs. 
>>business process or application processing. Perhaps you can give us more 
>>details as it does not appear that a formal business process (or 
>>applicable specification) was used.  In addition, there are mechanisms 
>>such as in the JCP (Java Community Process, such as Java Business 
>>Integration), that can facilitate what you require.  Any more details 
>>you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>http://drrw.net
>  
>