Re: [ebxml-cppa] CPPA Version 1.05

[Martin W Sachs <mwsachs@us.ibm.com>]

Duane,

This discussion is getting tripped up on terminology.  Please keep in mind:

PartyId is the party's well known identifier in whatever system we choose
to specify (e.g. DUNS). Your issues with PartyId are separate from your
other issues.

PartyRef is the element that points to the external information about the
Party that you are having trouble with. It has nothing to do with the
issues around PartyId.

PartyInfo is the root element for most of the information in the CPP. It
has nothing to do with your issues.

Regards,
Marty

*************************************************************************************

Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
*************************************************************************************



Duane Nickull <duane@xmlglobal.com> on 01/28/2002 05:34:32 PM

To:    Tony Weida <rweida@hotmail.com>
cc:    CPPA <ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org>, "'Ebtwg-Ccs (list)'"
       <ebtwg-ccs@lists.ebtwg.org>
Subject:    Re: [ebxml-cppa] CPPA Version 1.05





Tony Weida wrote:
> You're addressing the wrong audience in your campaign against DUNS
> numbers -- please remember that the CPPA spec doesn't require or
recommend
> them in any way whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>>>
Tony:

My fight is not against DUNS.  It is about the mechnism in general.  I
think it needs to be thought through really well.  At the first glance,
it appears extremely simple, however once you start working with it
under the hood,  there are issues.

> The spec simply enables a CPP owner to include a set of identifiers of
their
> own choice.
>>>>>>>>.
This is noble and needed.  IT is the mechanism itself I have some
questions about.

1.  In the Schema, there is no enumerated list of values.  The schema
simply says:

<attribute name="type" type="tns:non-empty-string"/>

therefore, I can already see a problem.  If I were to assign my company
its' own ID as you have stated is possible (Re: you wrote "If the DUNS
number doesn't suit you, simply ignore it and use one or more of the
other identifiers."), and I choose to use Duanes' Unique Numbering
System, I may end up with something like this:

<tp:PartyId tp:type="DUNS">123456789</tp:PartyId>

which may conflict with another persons ID if

<tp:PartyId tp:type="DUNS">123456789</tp:PartyId>

becuase their "DUNS" means "Dun and Bradstreet".

I suggest that we reword this spec to permit specific enumerated  values
which are semantically meaningful.  IF we do use "DUNS", and it means
"Dun and BradStreet", then lets' do this properly.

2.  The second technical issue is that I need more information about the
Trading PArtner than just a unique ID.  That can be done presumably via
the link to PartyInfo:

<tp:PartyRef xlink:href="http://CompanyA.com/about.html" />

This is a separate problem from the ID one and I will address this
separately.

My main concern about the DUNS is that there is no mechanism to make
sure that we have a way to track the DUNS value to an actual company
programatically (via a DUNS lookup registry or something similar).

3.  Regarding the separate issue of the PartyInfo link:

This needs to also have a type="something" that will give me information
so I can retrieve the values I need electronically.  The COre COmponents
team is relying on the fact that one can obtain the geopolitical
information during the Design and Discovery Phases.  If we use the XML,
which I fully agree is possible using the existing structure,  we end up
with something like this:

<tp:PartyRef xlink:href="http://CompanyA.com/about.xml"/>

THis is still not enough information for me to write code to retrieve
the information I need.  For example,  if I write a program to get this
information and want to parse out the country code, what is the path to
that code?  Is that code an ISO country code?

What I suggest we need is a way to declare what XML format the
information is expressed in.  I think that the CPP/A team should also
provide at least one default PartyInfo format in XML that also contains
the Minimal set of information to allow the context drivers to be
gathered.  Anything less and I think that the CPP/A will not meet the
minimal functional requirements of ebXML as a whole.

That being said,  the CPP/A is very close.  Just these two minor things
and it is there.

> (If you have issues with DUNS numbers per se, you should really take that
up
> with D&B and / or the companies that choose to use DUNS numbers.)
>>>>>>>>

Okay - the cats out of the bag.  I once had a terible experience trying
to get a DUNS number.  That is not my main contention.  It is the
mechanism itself that relies on the fact that DUNS means what you think
it is and allows other to verify and find out more. ;-)

Duane

CTO, XML Global Technologies
****************************
Transformation - http://www.xmlglobal.com/prod/foundation/
ebXML Central - http://www.xmlglobal.com/prod/central/

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