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Subject: [ebxml-cppa] RE: BPSS to WSDL mapping
If you extend WSDL to capture ALL BPSS semantics, you will get BPSS! We have a tendency to reproduce the same semantics in multiple representations. This is very confusing and expensive for the victims (Oops, I mean customers :) but great for tools and infrastructure that map between them. may be ebXML can become a "egoless specification" to provide mappings to other specifications :-) [cbc] That is exactly the intent of the OMG-MDA initiative and specifications like EDOC-CCA. CCA is in the process of being mapped to ebXML, WSDL, J2EE, Corba and others. (Note: IONA was a submitter on this specification, as was IBM and Sun). Here is the part that applies to BPSS like semantics (http://www.enterprise-component.com/docs/EdocCCA.pdf). > -----Original Message----- > From: Patil, Sanjaykumar [SMTP:spatil@iona.com] > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 6:11 PM > To: Cory Casanave; Young, Brian R; OASIS ebxml-cppa; > ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org > Subject: RE: BPSS to WSDL mapping > > > > It will be great if the BPSS to WSDL mapping did not lose any > of the BPSS features including two-way messages, choreography > and nested collaboration. > Perhaps one can extend WSDL to capture these additional semantics > of BPSS and I guess WSDL is extensible. > > On the lines of egoless programmer, egoless vendor, may be ebXML > can become a "egoless specification" to provide mappings to other > specifications :-) I think such cross specification mapping efforts > will help convergence or at least in clarifying the differences, > shortcomings, applicability, etc. > > thanks, > Sanjay Patil > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------------------------------- > IONA > END 2 ANYWHERE > Phone: 408 350 9619 http://www.iona.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cory Casanave [mailto:cory-c@enterprise-component.com] > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:51 PM > To: 'Young, Brian R'; Cory Casanave; 'OASIS ebxml-cppa'; > 'ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org' > Subject: RE: BPSS to WSDL mapping > > > Perhaps if we do this binding, BPSS will be the "next piece of the Web > Services "stack" -- something like Web Services Flow Language (WSFL)". > Since BPSS is now, not future and already contains these concepts in a > way > that can augment WSDL - why do it again? The big problem - "egoless > vendors" would be required. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Young, Brian R [SMTP:brian.r.young@boeing.com] > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:37 PM > > To: 'Cory Casanave'; 'OASIS ebxml-cppa'; 'ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org' > > Subject: RE: BPSS to WSDL mapping > > > > Cory -- > > > > This sounds like a first step, but I suspect WSDL should not be pushed > too > > far. WSDL provides a description of the technical interface for a web > > service, but doesn't really support concepts like choreography. That > > comes with the next piece of the Web Services "stack" -- something > like > > Web Services Flow Language (WSFL). This is still a future and there > are > > several candidate flow languages being proposed; but it will happen. > > > > I think you need to be careful not to confuse "adoption" with "it's > > supported". There is broad "adoption" of ebXML by those organizations > > that have been active in the ebXML effort; but I wonder how broad the > > "adoption" is among the tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of > > companies that have never heard of ebXML? It seems to me meaningful > > "adoption" will only happen once ebXML "is supported" by the big > hitters > > in the world of e-business/e-commerce. ebXML needs to be the default > mode > > of doing business when company X buys an off-the-shelf product for > doing > > business with company Y. And that is going to take a lot of sales > effort > > on the part of early ebXML "adopters" and a major commitment by > vendors to > > build ebXML into every aspect of their products. I remember that the > big > > buzz in software engineering at one time was "egoless programming". I > > wonder if we will ever have "egoless vendors"? > > > > > > Brian R. Young > > SSG & WHQ IS / Companywide Architecture and Standards > > (425) 865-5834 > > brian.r.young@boeing.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cory Casanave [mailto:cory-c@enterprise-component.com] > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:50 PM > > To: 'OASIS ebxml-cppa'; 'ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org' > > Subject: BPSS to WSDL mapping > > > > > > In a web services seminary this week it became clear that the > kinds > > of capabilities offered by ebXML were directly applicable to > enterprise > > adoption of web services technologies and architectures. In a panel > > session it was stated (by an IBM representative) that problems with > ebXML > > were that the adoption was "to fast" and it was "Not linked to WSDL". > > Well, we can't go back and slow down the process, but we can fix the > > latter. > > > > Perhaps in this upcoming release we could include a short > section > > that would specify a mapping from BPSS to WSDL. There are three basic > > issues with this mapping. > > * BPSS specifies two way mappings where as WSDL is one-way > > * BPSS allows for nested collaborations > > * BPSS has choreography and other semantics. > > > > To create a representation of the WSDL subset of BPSS semantics > > would not be that hard. It would require the production of WSDL for > each > > "side" of a binary collaboration. The nested collaborations could be > > "flattened" into one WSDL interface or we could use multiple separate > > interfaces. The choreography and other more advanced BPSS semantics > would > > be lost in the WSDL representation but still binding on the services > which > > implement them. > > > > This is not a hard task - it could be done in a day or two. I > > suggest that for greater acceptance in the industry we consider adding > an > > XSLT transform to produce the required WSDL and make this part of the > next > > revision - very soon. This would help bind ebXML into the web > services > > core technologies. While we (DAT) don't have to bandwidth to do this > in > > the sort time required, we would be happy to assist someone in such a > > task. > > > > Regards, > > > > Cory B. Casanave, President > > Data Access Technologies > > www.enterprise-component.com > <http://www.enterprise-component.com/> > > (305) 234 7077 > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.ebtwg.org/ob/adm.pl> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.ebtwg.org/ob/adm.pl>
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