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Subject: Re: T2 - Assertions and Questions
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:57:39 -0600 From: Colleen Evans <cevans@sonicsoftware.com> However, if the 'chasm' is considered the end to end delivery, then a weak link is a problem. I'm sorry, I didn't say that very well. What I was trying to say was that if you have two "endpoint" entities that want to communicate reliably, and they use a protocol that provides end-to-end reliable messaging (using the usual techniques of retransmission, acknolwedgement, duplicate detection/elimination, etc), then they can communicate reliabily even if they have to go through a series of hops that are unreliable (can lose messages or duplicate messages). I think your point that we need to clearly define the possible, meaningful and realistic use cases and see how the spec matches up is very valid. In my mind, there are two categories of scenarios involving intermediaries: (1) the intermediary provides some value-add such as BP, translation, etc. or (2) the intermediary is purely a switching mechanism. These categories also impact the CPA discussion in terms of where the business agreements exist (between the end points, the end point and intermediary hop(s), etc.) One of the scenarios I was wondering about was an intermediary that functions as a mutually-trusted party that adds signed timestamps to messages. So if A sends a message to B through this IM, B receives a message that contains the original message from A, plus a time value, signed by the IM, so that B can later prove (provide evidence) that the message was generated before time T and that B received it after time T. This scenario has IM signing something that might have already been signed by A, i.e. nested signing, which is not at all uncommon in cryptologic protocols, but which doesn't seem to be something contemplated by the existing Message Service spec. So I suppose this is a scenario that we do not propose to deal with. But one of the interesting things about it is that the fact that the messages need to be timestamped by a mutually-trusted third party, and the question of who we mutually trust, are really parts of a business agreement and would therefore logically belong in the actual CPA. But just because someone can invent a scenario does not mean that supporting it is a requirement! The real question is what use cases are actually required. -- Dan
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