RE: [ebxml-msg] Section 3.1.6.4 TimeToLiveElement

[David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>]

No, Arvola is right.

We decided a message could be delivered from the MSH to the Application AFTER
TTL.  TTL is the time it must be delivered to the To Party MSH.  If this is not
true, then the receiver could just hold any message he didn't like until after
TTL and then discard, regardless of any Acknowledgments.  The sending of an
Acknowledgment constitutes a commitment by the MSH to deliver to the Application
(what the Application does is undefined).

Regards,

David.

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Bunting [mailto:dougb62@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:47 AM
To: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Section 3.1.6.4 TimeToLiveElement


Arvola,

I disagree; the wording is fine as it is.

If the example you've described occurs, the To Party MSH is not operating
correctly.  The TimeToLive value is intended to be the time by which
(end-to-end, application-to-application, whatever you want to call it)
delivery must be complete.  That may mean the To Party MSH discards a
message after it has been persisted in some storage (but not delivered to
its application).

Going further, your previous recommendation made sense though the example
was also slightly incorrect.  In that example, a message found in persistent
store after crash recovery might (MUST) be discarded due to an expired
TimeToLive value.  Of course, we can't say anything about how long it might
take an application to process a message...

thanx,
    doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arvola Chan" <arvola@tibco.com>
To: "David Fischer" <david@drummondgroup.com>;
<ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Monday, 10 December 2001 17:44
Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Section 3.1.6.4 TimeToLiveElement


David:

The first paragraph in section 3.1.6.4 in the version 1.091 draft now reads:

"If the TimeToLive element is present, it MUST be used to indicate the time,
expressed in UTC, by which a message should be delivered to the To Party. It
must conform to an XML Schema dateTime."

I think the phrase "To Party" should be replaced with "To Party MSH". The To
Party MSH will check the incoming message to determine if its TimeToLive has
expired. It may have to make a persistent copy of the message before
attempting to deliver it to the To Party. A crash may happen after the
message has been persisted but prior to its being delivered to the To Party.
Therefore, it is entirely possible that the To Party only receives the
message after TimeToLive has passed.

Regards,
-Arvola

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>; ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
<ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Section 3.1.6.4 TimeToLiveElement


>Yes, I will remove "and processed by".
>
>David.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 5:49 PM
>To: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: [ebxml-msg] Section 3.1.6.4 TimeToLiveElement
>
>
>This first paragraph in this section states:
>
>"The TimeToLive element indicates the time by which a message should be
>delivered to and processed by the To Party."
>
>I don't think the above statement is correct. The message must be received
>by the To Party MSH prior to its TimeToLive. Once it has been persisted by
>the To Party MSH, it can be delivered to the To Party. If a crash occurs
>after the message has been persisted but before it can be handed over to
the
>To Party, it is possible that it may be processed by the To Party (on crash
>recovery) even after TimeToLive has expired.
>
>-Arvola
>
>
>
>
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