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Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Issue 15: Use of the word OPTIONAL


For what it's worth, some W3C specs use the non-uppercase form. The SVG spec
(http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20010904/REC-SVG-20010904.pdf), for
instance, states:

"Within this specification, the key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED",
"SHALL", "SHALL
NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" are to be
interpreted as described in RFC 2119 (see [RFC2119]). However, for
readability, these words
do not appear in all uppercase letters in this specification."

-Philippe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fischer [mailto:david@drummondgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 7:57 AM
To: Martin W Sachs
Cc: ebXML
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Issue 15: Use of the word OPTIONAL


Marty, your characterization of the RFC2119 words gives me great pause.  If
you
were correct, then we must erase these words from our vocabulary -- which
certainly was not the intent of the RFC.  I must strongly disagree
concerning
those words used in non-upper case (*must* as opposed to *MUST*).  Standard
usage in RFCs has been strictly with ALL CAPS.  This has also been true
throughout the development process of TRP/ebXML-MS and in all our
discussions.

However, just be sure, I went to the IETF and asked.  The answers so far
have
been in favor of only ALL CAPS (see attached) invoking the definitions in
2119.
They do acknowledge the confusion as you have cited.  One interesting
example
was the word May -- the name of a month.  Should this also be an RFC2119 key
word?

I'm sorry Marty, but the 2119 definitions only apply to ALL CAPS, unless we
define otherwise in our specification.  We have been VERY careful with these
words and we have only used them (the ALL CAPS versions) when we really mean
the
2119 definitions -- including our use of OPTIONAL.

Regards,

David.

Note:  If more responses come in from the IETF, I will be happy to forward
them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:59 PM
To: David Fischer
Cc: Doug Bunting; ebXML
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Issue 15: Use of the word OPTIONAL



Conformance to RFC2119 means that the word OPTIONAL (or optional) means
that an implementer does not have to provide that which is stated as
optional.  We don't want to confuse anyone into thinking that non-required
elements or attributes do not have to be provided by implementers.  Don't
assume that implementers will catch on.  The words in a specification have
to be precise.

Regards,
Marty

****************************************************************************
****
*****

Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
****************************************************************************
****
*****



David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com> on 02/12/2002 05:36:53 PM

To:    Doug Bunting <dougb62@yahoo.com>, ebXML
       <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc:
Subject:    RE: [ebxml-msg] Issue 15: Use of the word OPTIONAL



I'm still not sure why it is not either definition and why this is not
allowed?
Section 1.1.1 says

 "An implementation which does not include a particular option MUST be
prepared
to interoperate with another implementation which does include the option,
though perhaps with reduced functionality."

Our spec simply defines *reduced functionality* as an Error of
NotSupported.
I'm not sure why this change is needed?

We need to limit out discussions to essential changes.

Regards,

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Bunting [mailto:dougb62@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:09 PM
To: ebXML
Subject: [ebxml-msg] Issue 15: Use of the word OPTIONAL


David has disagreed with Chris' statement that OPTIONAL is misused
(according
to 2119) in a number of contexts.  The basic issue here is a conflict
between
something that may or may not appear in an instance of an ebXML message and
something that must or may be implemented by a compliant ebMS system.  In
the
specified uses of the word OPTIONAL, the first is meant but our document
conventions (section 1.1.1) restricts us to using OPTIONAL only when the
second is intended.  I would strongly recommend making the change Chris
suggested.

thanx,
    doug



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