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Subject: Re: [emergency-sc] Re: [emergency] Re: [emergency-sc] Description of problem with TC pages

Hi Elysa,

  Sorry if I came on a little strong; I thought that we pretty much had everything in place. I know that you used to have someone doing the TC home page that left (was that Patti? Sorry for not remembering) and that you've been hard pressed to replace her. As far as the errata go for both HAVE and RM, after the 15-day public review the TC needs to vote them as approved errata (note they currently are identified as CD01 and Draft Errata rather than Approved Errata). Once that's done and you let me know, I'll update the documents and list them on the standards page in the same manner as the CAP errata. 

  If you voted already and I missed it, my apologies!

  As far as folders go, you can move documents between 'folders'. It won't change their URIs at all as the folders are really just an imaginary structure and not real directories (note the URLs to any documents don't show any folder names, just an object ID). As you know I have to create any folders you'd like; I'm happy to do it - just send me a list.

Here's how:
1. In the document listing, select 'manage' under the actions heading.
2. That will bring up the details screen. select 'modify'
3. you'll see a bunch of fields. go down to folder. you'll see a list of existing folders to choose from.
4. save/submit changes.

Try it and let me know if it works for you. I don't know what permissions are required to do it (like is it just chairs/secretaries, only the 'owner' of the document, any TC member ..)

Note that the outside world doesn't get the advantage of seeing folders; they just see the document listings in some random order (Robin and I have tried to figure out what does/doesn't get displayed without much luck).

I reorganize my local filesystem every 12 - 18 months; as time goes on you gather / create different stuff and need a different organizational structure to make it work. The good news is that it doesn't impact the URLs so there's no penalty involved (unlike your local filesystem ;)

Your TC has quite a workload. It may make sense to think about creating separate TCs to take on these different specs; then you wouldn't be trying to maintain so many different but related pieces of information within the same area. There's pros and cons, and doc mgmt is probably not a really good reason if it's the only one.

We can schedule a separate meeting with those interested to talk about organization, home page vs member section site vs TC wiki, etc. Part of the problem is having multiple places to choose from; sometimes it's better to not have options and everything stays in the same place.

Let me know what I can do to help.

All the best,


Mary P McRae
Director, Standards Development
Technical Committee Administrator
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
twitter: @fiberartisan  #oasisopen
phone: 1.603.232.9090

Standards are like parachutes: they work best when they're open.

On Dec 11, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Elysa Jones wrote:


Wow - this kind of got blown out of proportion!

I was going to answer Dee that no, I didn't think that was a fair description.  There has not been any "frustration" on the part of the EM-TC as far as I know.  What I said today in our EI-MS StC meeting was, if I had it to do over, I would have done a better job or organizing the document folders.  Over 5 years of building on a structure that I was not very sure of at the outset has cause documents to not always be put in the best   place.  I wanted to help Werner and Tom as they start out with the Adoption TC to make sure they don't make the same mistakes I did.  I would also like to reorganize some of the document folders but obviously cannot do that on my own for fear of not preserving the proper links.  For example, folders for White Papers, Use Cases, Requirements and Resources do not have clear and consistent definitions with content that is distinct and correct for that named folder. 

We have had a problem that an incorrect schema got proliferated at some point and want to make sure that doesn't happen again.  However, I do not think that is the fault of our document section but rather someone putting it in a public place other than the OASIS site.

One of the discussion points in the EI-MS has been to reference more materials and supporting documents when someone accesses our Standards from the home page.  Other TCs have done a better job (like ebXML)   and I wasn't aware we could put additional information.  We may also not reference the Errata as we should, this doesn't appear on the link from the home page at all.  Maybe that is the way it should be since it isn't mentioned with CAP 1.1 on the link from the home page.  Now we have Errata for both HAVE and RM.

Maybe these are just growing pains as we have several Standards now which require some maintenance.  My only frustration has been that there is quite a bit of work to do that we can't seem to get done.  Our TC home page is very much out of date but Werner is working on that.  There will be updates to it ready for the TC to review before posting soon.  I'm sorry for any confusion on this. 

I think you know that if there is a frustration on the part of our TC, I don't hesitate to get in touch with you.  You are always helpful in these issues.

Elysa Jones, Chair
CTO Warning Systems, Inc.

At 05:43 PM 12/11/2009, Mary McRae wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm concerned about these concerns and that they haven't been brought to my attention. If something is not correct on the OASIS Standards page someone should let me know so I can get it fixed.

I'm also happy to give recommendations to the TC about the best way reference their schemas so they're always easily found (i.e. use http namespaces rather than urns with accompanying namespace documents that are noted directly on the spec cover page). Second best note the schema location in the 'related work' section on the cover page.

Maintenance of the TC homepage is the TC's responsibility. This is not something that OASIS has the bandwidth to provide. There are templates and instructions; it's pretty simple HTML so anyone with some basic HTML skills can do this. Alternatively it can be uploaded into an HTML editor, the information filled in, and then cut/pasted into the TC page.

Document repositories can't be 'cleaned up'; that is it is against OASIS policy to remove any work of a TC, nor can existing documents be edited in situ. Anyone who is not a member of the TC doesn't see the same view of the document repository as a member; this is something we will resolve with the Kavi replacement system. However the best - and cleanest - resource for finding approved/official TC work remains the docs.oasis-open.org library.

I don't see any reason to spend money on a consultant; I think we need to determine exactly what the problems are, rectify those we can, describe those that cannot be rectified at the current time, and then see what's left on the list to be done either by a volunteer member with HTML skills or an external resource.



Mary P McRae
Director, Standards Development
Technical Committee Administrator
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
web: www.oasis-open.org
twitter: @fiberartisan  #oasisopen
phone: 1.603.232.9090

Standards are like parachutes: they work best when they're open.

On Dec 11, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Dee Schur wrote:

Is this a fair description of the problem we need to solve?
The EM TC is frustrated because the EM documents/materials are not up to date and/or located in the right place. When you link from the OASIS homepage under standards, the documents posted there are not the correct (most current) version particularly the HAVE documents it is also hard to find the schemas. There are issues with other links from the TC homepage. The TC homepage is not updated under any of the subheading in the table of contents. Also, for example, when you go the XACML TC page you see&nbs\wp;numerous links to non-normative information. The EM TC would like to have their homepage (public) set up in a similar fashion. The real complaint is ease of use to find specs/schemas/normative and non-normative documents. The StC agrees to allocate funds to sponsor a consultant to clean up the TC document repositories and make access to public much easier.

Dee Schur, Member Support
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society http://www.oasis-open.org

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