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Subject: RE: [energyinterop] Thinking about Models for Demand Response Interactions
I understand your reluctance but
I never intended the actors to include appliances/end devices. On the building
side the actors are the ESI and the ESI manager (or building manager). In your statements, you had included
“Financial Markets” and “Long running Processes” both of which go well beyond
the client/server paradigm of Utility to ESI interactions. For those, we need
to define actors and contracts. With kind regards, ******************************** Michel Kohanim,
C.E.O Universal
Devices, Inc. (p)
818.631.0333 (f)
818.708.0755 http://www.universal-devices.com ******************************** From: Considine, Toby
(Campus Services IT) [mailto:Toby.Considine@unc.edu] I am both happy and reluctant to
start the actor discussion… In a pure price discussion, the
Actor is always the building. And the building responds how it responds. In a contracted performance
scenario, more in line with today’s practice if not tomorrow’s, I am reaching
for hints to encourage energy storage. But does Energy Storage
engagement mean: -
Fully charge the ICE Energy units? -
Overcool the buildings so you can rely on
intrinsic thermal mass? -
Now you know when to charge your car? -
Schedule your industrial processes to
miss the peak? Do we really need to define all
the actors? Similar hints may have more
complex responses for the autonomous agent during peak times, much as the
marathoner decides whether to drink more water based upon a combination of how
close to the front of the pack and how much distance is left. Personifying the premises equipment: -
If my instructions are to always keep an
hour of energy on hand, I may realize that charging during the expensive now is
required to make it through the more expensive soon, and meet my QOS -
I have to drive a couple miles to choir
practice at 8:00. It is 5:00. Should I wait for a double price quick-charge in
two hours or start slow charging now? -
Should I prepare the office for occupants
(takes two hours)starting at 6:30 or should I grab the great prices available
at 3:30 this morning and maintain… My preference is that the Actors
are useful for us to understand how buildings might respond, but are not part
of the interface definition. tc "A man should never be
ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he
is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
From: Michel Kohanim
[mailto:michel@universal-devices.com] HI Toby, Excellent starting points for
discussion. I think that almost all these high level statements do also need
“actors” attached to them. For instance, which actors are going to be
interested in “Price will be more expensive tomorrow afternoon”? With kind regards, ******************************** Michel Kohanim,
C.E.O Universal
Devices, Inc. (p)
818.631.0333 (f)
818.708.0755 http://www.universal-devices.com ******************************** From: Considine, Toby
(Campus Services IT) [mailto:Toby.Considine@unc.edu] Models for Demand Response (DR) Questions to tease out conversations on the correct
interaction patterns for Energy Interoperation Heard on the street: 1)
There are three kinds of DR: a. Pure Price Information b. Price and Contract Invocation (You remember that agreement we
had to turn off the turboencabulator? Well do it!) c. Curtailment (The grid is going down. Its non negotiable that
you…) 2)
Price and Product Description?
That’s just Terms and Conditions 3)
Financial markets are based around
the multi-legged product, i.e., a market that includes more than one product in
the sale, and the transaction is for all or nothing. For energy, this might
mean a. Electricity product sold with matching carbon credits to enable
clean pricing decisions b. Green credits stripped from one energy source and sold as part
of another transaction c. Risk and reliability are just line items, separately priceable. 4)
Even in a pure price world, we are
going to need price predictions for DR and storage to work. a. “Energy will be more expensive tomorrow afternoon” b. Cheap Energy will be available after 9:30 for the next 11 hours. 5)
For industry, long running process
require long running energy commitments a. I want to buy this suite of products, x KW per interval for 15
consecutive intervals before I stat the process. b. For bids, I will accept all of the intervals or none c. Balancing an early morning production run and an evening
production run for two different factories may result in custom pricing in a
single market/locale When I am thinking about the model for DR, and the model for
Pricing/Product we plan to include in DR, I think about how to optimize for all
of the above statements. I think about simple data models that can be shared
with small devices. I think of complex models to interact with industrial
processes. I think of hiding the distinctions between DER, Storage, and DR. What is the right way to indicate price commitments over
time? A series of intervals? A price curve? How do I bid an energy use curve? What if I offer back a
curve that is cheaper on 6 intervals but more expensive on one? Can the consumer submit 4 usage curves for bids, and accept
the single one that best serves the needs of the [factory]? How do we transact
those offers / bids / deals? What can we learn about how to do this consistent with the
financial model of the “multi-legged deal” "When one door closes, another opens; but we often look
so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one
which has opened for us." -- Alexander Graham Bell
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