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Subject: RE: Symbols, Signs and Signals
Chaos theory makes a lot of sense to me, as does behavioral cybernetics. If we can get a feedback loop for basic gestural behaviors that doesn't have to go all the way back to a server hashtable to find out what to do and then come back to the client and have the client calculate percentage degrees of said behavior that would be paradise, sorta. If the server could just receive an emoticon for slight smile from the client, f'rnstance, and send back 65% smile image to all users connected to that environment and register that much of a response for the current state of that user...that would be way cool. That's the practical result we get now on yahoo groups chat and IM except groups chat isn't logged, so no record. The conference IM can be logged but doesn't go into an on-going state database. Getting a messaging schema going that could be hooked up to a database would be a nice place to start. Ciao, Rex At 8:19 AM -0500 10/3/01, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote: >I developed a model in 1988 for the Beyond The Book Metaphor >book for GE. It was based on the Hatley Pirbhai methodology >for real time systems specifications. I can dust it off >and see if parts still make sense (it was the first DTD >I'd written). Functionally, most process/control designs >are much the same all being based on systems theory concepts >that are waaaay old. At that time, I was looking into chaos >theory as well and working with ideas of view dimensionality, >or scale based on viewpoint as well as behavioral cybernetics. >I'll need to sort this out and provide a write up of how this >might work. > >len > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kurt Cagle [mailto:kurt@kurtcagle.net] >Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 7:47 PM >To: humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org >Subject: Re: Symbols, Signs and Signals > > >I'm inclined to agree. Do you have a model for process associations that >you're thinking about here, or is this something we will need to develop ad >hoc? > >-- Kurt >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com> >To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>; "OASIS Comment" ><humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org> >Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 5:31 PM >Subject: Re: Symbols, Signs and Signals > > >Definitely a good idea. Especially process association. Gotta do some >thinking. > >Ciao, >Rex > >At 3:01 PM -0500 10/2/01, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote: >>In a noodling mood... >> >>We need some thoughts on using our current schema. We have >>discussed the use of physical properties in processes such as >>identification. Identification is a process used to establish >>for the sake of another process, a quantifiable identity property. >> >>I am considering our semiotic categories for symbols, signs, and >>signals and how they would be used in a given process. >>A process model has a lot of advantages and are well known >>in communications theory and real time contol. Whereas many >>use object models these days, process models have some advantages >>of not being quite as abstract, but suitably abstract, and >>applicable to many kinds of human communications both formal >>and informal. They would serve as a means to organize >>the our other categories into a flow (to orchestrate so >>to speak) can are suitable to emergent systems in that >>process/control models separate the controls and controls >>are the token of emergence. >> >>A lot of the work that would make HumanML useful is the assembly >>of what are sometimes called code lists. In effect, these are >>enumerations but with an added description for interpretation. >>We have lists of these per Joe's work and that is as good a >>place to start if any if we can fill in more detail such as >>descriptive information. >> >>It seems we need: >> >>1. The emotion plus description. >>2. Symbol sets that can be used to represent it. >>3. A means to associate expressions of emotions to >> their symbolic representations or gestures. > > >>Our categories in the schemas are weak but I don't know >>how to tighten them up without examples so we should start >>somewhere. The emoticons seem like a low hanging fruit. >> >>When a symbol, signal, sign or message type is added, we >>additionally should be able to associate to process types >>in which it is likely to occur. A process would be defined >>pretty much as the original systems theory texts define it >>and as used in real time control systems. This is a very >>basic model of inputs, outputs with associated control >>specifications. A process can nest. >> >>Symbols, signals, and signs may have a culture associated >>with them particularly symbols. Culture is in one sense, >>the old environment model, but it accounts for history, >>yet is not confined to location since culture is carried >>as an aspect of community. >> >>This is a lot of stuff. >> >>It seems trivial, but what if we mapped the known emoticons, >>eg, what Miriam had on her list as a symbol set of XML Schema >>simpleTypes using regexes? We can make up a culture, say, >>webHeads or something of the sort and fill in as much detail >>as we can. We don't have to be hindered by political correctness >>in this, so for an exploratory example, it is ideal. >> >>len >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription >>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> > > >-- >Rex Brooks >GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA, Earth >W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com >Email: rexb@starbourne.com >Tel: 510-849-2309 >Fax: By Request > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription >manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription >manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription >manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> -- Rex Brooks GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA, Earth W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com Email: rexb@starbourne.com Tel: 510-849-2309 Fax: By Request
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