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Subject: Re: Symbols, Signs and Signals + HM.Requirements: dynamic additions


At first, I didn't quite able to understand the process model too well, but
I had the opportunity to correspond with Rex.  My understanding (with simple
examples) is how to get...


from  :-)   to   :-|   to   :-(


OR


Happiness --> to smile


OR


BloodLust---> to Violence
-------------------

My understanding is that different types of dynamic characteristics (i.e.
processes) should be incorporated into the design...thus, here is my input
for the HM.Requirements Document:
---------------------------------------------------------------
The HumanML may be dynamic, in several senses:
   -represent different perspectives, additional perspectives (tying in with
different perceptions, different authorities)
   -represent changes due to more refined definitions (greater and greater
amounts of cultural data...)
   -represent changes due to prolonged interaction  (happiness turning to
boredom the longer the seminar goes on--as seen in the example above)
   -represent changes due to changing personality, opinion, views, new
learnings (new insights, ideas, understandings create different
interpretations)


----------------
Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com>
To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>; "Kurt Cagle"
<kurt@kurtcagle.net>; <humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: Symbols, Signs and Signals


>
> Chaos theory makes a lot of sense to me, as does behavioral
> cybernetics. If we can get a feedback loop for basic gestural
> behaviors that doesn't have to go all the way back to a server
> hashtable to find out what to do and then come back to the client and
> have the client calculate percentage degrees of said behavior that
> would be paradise, sorta. If the server could just receive an
> emoticon for slight smile from the client, f'rnstance, and send back
> 65% smile image to all users connected to that environment and
> register that much of a response for the current state of that
> user...that would be way cool.
>
> That's the practical result we get now on yahoo groups chat and IM
> except groups chat isn't logged, so no record. The conference IM can
> be logged but doesn't go into an on-going state database. Getting a
> messaging schema going that could be hooked up to a database would be
> a nice place to start.
>
> Ciao,
> Rex
>
> At 8:19 AM -0500 10/3/01, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote:
> >I developed a model in 1988 for the Beyond The Book Metaphor
> >book for GE.  It was based on the Hatley Pirbhai methodology
> >for real time systems specifications.   I can dust it off
> >and see if parts still make sense (it was the first DTD
> >I'd written).  Functionally, most process/control designs
> >are much the same all being based on systems theory concepts
> >that are waaaay old.  At that time, I was looking into chaos
> >theory as well and working with ideas of view dimensionality,
> >or scale based on viewpoint as well as behavioral cybernetics.
> >I'll need to sort this out and provide a write up of how this
> >might work.
> >
> >len
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Kurt Cagle [mailto:kurt@kurtcagle.net]
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 7:47 PM
> >To: humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
> >Subject: Re: Symbols, Signs and Signals
> >
> >
> >I'm inclined to agree. Do you have a model for process associations that
> >you're thinking about here, or is this something we will need to develop
ad
> >hoc?
> >
> >-- Kurt
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com>
> >To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@ingr.com>; "OASIS Comment"
> ><humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 5:31 PM
> >Subject: Re: Symbols, Signs and Signals
> >
> >
> >Definitely a good idea. Especially process association. Gotta do some
> >thinking.
> >
> >Ciao,
> >Rex
> >
> >At 3:01 PM -0500 10/2/01, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote:
> >>In a noodling mood...
> >>
> >>We need some thoughts on using our current schema.  We have
> >>discussed the use of physical properties in processes such as
> >>identification.  Identification is a process used to establish
> >>for the sake of another process, a quantifiable identity property.
> >>
> >>I am considering our semiotic categories for symbols, signs, and
> >>signals and how they would be used in a given process.
> >>A process model has a lot of advantages and are well known
> >>in communications theory and real time contol.  Whereas many
> >>use object models these days, process models have some advantages
> >>of not being quite as abstract, but suitably abstract, and
> >>applicable to many kinds of human communications both formal
> >>and informal.   They would serve as a means to organize
> >>the our other categories into a flow (to orchestrate so
> >>to speak) can are suitable to emergent systems in that
> >>process/control models separate the controls and controls
> >>are the token of emergence.
> >>
> >>A lot of the work that would make HumanML useful is the assembly
> >>of what are sometimes called code lists.  In effect, these are
> >>enumerations but with an added description for interpretation.
> >>We have lists of these per Joe's work and that is as good a
> >>place to start if any if we can fill in more detail such as
> >>descriptive information.
> >>
> >>It seems we need:
> >>
> >>1.  The emotion plus description.
> >>2.  Symbol sets that can be used to represent it.
> >>3.  A means to associate expressions of emotions to
> >>      their symbolic representations or gestures.
> >  >
> >>Our categories in the schemas are weak but I don't know
> >>how to tighten them up without examples so we should start
> >>somewhere.  The emoticons seem like a low hanging fruit.
> >>
> >>When a symbol, signal, sign or message type is added, we
> >>additionally should be able to associate to process types
> >>in which it is likely to occur.  A process would be defined
> >>pretty much as the original systems theory texts define it
> >>and as used in real time control systems.   This is a very
> >>basic model of inputs, outputs with associated control
> >>specifications.  A process can nest.
> >>
> >>Symbols, signals, and signs may have a culture associated
> >>with them particularly symbols.  Culture is in one sense,
> >>the old environment model, but it accounts for history,
> >>yet is not confined to location since culture is carried
> >>as an aspect of community.
> >>
> >>This is a lot of stuff.
> >>
> >>It seems trivial, but what if we mapped the known emoticons,
> >>eg, what Miriam had on her list as a symbol set of XML Schema
> >>simpleTypes using regexes?  We can make up a culture, say,
> >>webHeads or something of the sort and fill in as much detail
> >>as we can.  We don't have to be hindered by political correctness
> >>in this, so for an exploratory example, it is ideal.
> >>
> >>len
> >>
> >>----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >--
> >Rex Brooks
> >GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA, Earth
> >W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com
> >Email: rexb@starbourne.com
> >Tel: 510-849-2309
> >Fax: By Request
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
> --
> Rex Brooks
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA, Earth
> W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com
> Email: rexb@starbourne.com
> Tel: 510-849-2309
> Fax: By Request
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>



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