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Subject: RE: [kmip] Length of meetings

I would agree, Matt.  My preference would be 2-hours every two weeks, which would provide ample time in between meetings to review material.  An example flow that has worked well in other standards groups is:

1     Opening remarks/roll call

2     Approval of the Agenda

3     Approval of previous meeting minutes

4     Review of action items:

·         status of each item is either a carryover or closed;

·         if an action item involves creating a proposal, then the action item is closed upon delivery of the first draft of the proposal, since it then first becomes a new business item, followed by becoming an old business item if it is not successfully approved the first time (i.e, it is carried as an agenda item instead of an action item; action items track things to do, agenda items track discussions/proposals to consider/vote on).

5     Old Business

5.1   (old business item 1)

5.2   (old business item 2)

5.3   (etc)

6     New Business

6.1   (new business item 1)

6.2   (new business item 2)

6.3   (etc)

7     Next Meeting Requirements (optional)

8     Review New Action Items

9     Adjournment


It is also very helpful if proposals against a standard are numbered and include a revision number (e.g., v0, v1, etc), so the agenda can accurately reflect what is being reviewed.  It doesn’t appear that OASIS/KMIP has a document numbering tool, so I’m not sure how proposals can be sequenced other than by name and revision as posted.


As an example, your action item for creating an alignment proposal would be closed now, and we’d have an agenda item to review your actual proposal against the standard.  It would be helpful if there was just one proposal (e.g., either the 32-bit or the 64-bit or something) to consider and discuss.  Based on the discussion, you may receive feedback to revise and post (and remain an agenda item) until a clear consensus is reached to warrant a motion for incorporation into the standard.  Given the large group, someone could decide to move on a revision that seemed acceptable enough to pass a vote (whether on the call or electronic doesn’t matter so much).  There may not be unanimous support for every proposal.


There can be agenda items that seek guidance on a direction to pursue in drafting an actual proposal, which could result in “group” action items to provide input to the requestor (e.g., 32-bit vs. 64-bit, or use of application specific identifiers).  But usually agenda items end up being draft changes to the standard to consider (e.g., new sections, edits, etc).


Just some thoughts (since you asked).

Rod Wideman

From: Matthew.Ball@Sun.COM [mailto:Matthew.Ball@Sun.COM]
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 2:18 PM
To: kmip@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [kmip] Length of meetings

Hi Folks,

I think scheduling 2 hours is also a good idea.  As the group gets larger, it becomes necessary to extend the meeting length just because the procedural portions (taking attendance, roll call votes, etc) also get longer.  Plus the work load usually increases.

I'm unhappy that we only got through one item today, and doubly so that it was partly my fault.  The group is still pretty new, and I think we're still trying to find the efficiency point.  Early in the alignment discussion, someone suggested that we immediately start an electronic ballot and get the issue over with.  In retrospect, that would have been more expedient, although I think we had some useful dialog on the pros/cons of 32-bit vs 64-bit.

I dislike meetings that go down a rat hole as much as the rest of you, and hope that we can learn (possibly through some trial-and-error) the processes that keep the meetings efficient.  Here are some of my thoughts on how we can keep the meetings lean-and-mean:
  1. Post agendas and (mostly) stick to them
  2. Streamline the taking of attendance:  I'm hoping that we can find a fast way to use WebEx to create the initial attendee list and avoid phone roll calls.  Ideally, we could use a Kavi tool to take attendance automatically (does OASIS support this?).
  3. During review of action items, only discuss status of the action items, not the item itself.  Otherwise, you may never get status updates on the other action items, or get Liaison reports and such... :)
  4. Adopt a policy of requiring all proposals to go to a 7-day electronic ballot before adoption by the committee and inclusion into the draft.  I learned this while fumbling through about 3 different revisions of the main motion in today's meeting.  This was made clear when a whole bunch of new objections were raised when the motion was changed from "requiring 64-bit alignment of the value field" to "adopt the 64-bit proposal".  I'm assuming that most of the objections were because the members did not have ample time to review the proposal.  By doing a 7-day electronic ballot, this provides time for a review.
Thoughts?  It always takes a little bit of time to figure out the group dynamic, but I think that after we get the mechanics down to a well-oiled machine we'll be able to make progress very quickly.


Marcus Streets wrote:
I believe it is clear that we do not achieve sufficient progress in a
one hour meeting.

Therefore, I propose we increase the meeting to two hours each week.

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