Re: [legalcite-markup-discuss] Legacy citations?

[Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net>]

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Chet,

Thanks!

So presentation of citations is going to be out of scope?

That is the TC will specify metadata from which a citation can be
derived but not actually specify a particular presentation?

For example:

Gibbons v. Ogden would be something like:

Vol. 22

Court: U.S. Supreme Court

Page: 1

??

The official, non-vendor citation being 22 U.S. 1.

*****

Curious if parallel citation systems are going to be captured?

One obvious case is U.S. Supreme Court cases:

For example, Gibbons v. Ogden can also be cited as: 6 L.Ed. 23 or 9
Wheat. 1. (I don't now the US Supreme Court reporter citation (West)).

Another would be the legacy citation systems that the TC proposes to
supplant.

Reasoning that capturing parallel citations will make the metadata
useful to both current and future software and users.

One example would be courts that continue to use vendor specific
citations could be easily mapped to the proposed citation system.


*****

I am not comfortable with the "...applicable world-wide..." language.

That implies that while limited in scope to some legal domain, the
claim is being made that the standard should work for all domains.

It might be better to choose a scope of say the Blue Book and/or
whatever the UK equivalent may be, and create metadata for all the
items within those scopes.

With that experience, other legal domains could be studied and
extensions to the existing metadata made accommodate any needed changes.

My fear is that unless and until all the targets have been enumerated
and tested, what seems comprehensive now, may not be so upon further
investigation.

Hope you are having a great weekend!

Patrick


On 09/27/2013 06:31 PM, Chet Ensign wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Well, in fact, we are scoping the proposed standard narrowly, to
> focus on a metadata model and markup specification, so that those
> centuries worth of cites in a variety of texts need not be meddled
> with.
> 
> There are certainly a great deal of existing work to build on, both
> specs for the text form of citations like the Blue Book and in
> electronic markup. We don't want to reinvent the wheel. It is
> critical though that the result be a free, open standard applicable
> world-wide developed in a forum that ensures open access, broad
> participation, public review and comment and assurance that the
> specification will evolve in methodical, disciplined ways. (Not say
> that other initiatives don't have the qualities - only that our
> proposal presumes those values as well.)
> 
> Note though that this isn't intended to specify forms that the
> citation text should adhere to on the page. My experience at Lexis
> suggests that there's more likelihood of success if we work on the
> enabling technology behind the page.
> 
> Best,
> 
> /chet
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Patrick Durusau
> <patrick@durusau.net>wrote:
> 
> Greetings!
> 
> I read with interest Robin Cover's summary of work on "...a data
> model and markup language standard for neutral/universal legal
> citation...."
> 
> While I am sure such a standard could be useful to a number of
> groups, I am curious how such an effort would treat existing
> citation practices?
> 
> A new standard will exist along side practices that have persisted
> for centuries and some legal materials will continue to be cited in
> their original form, some perhaps forever.
> 
> Recognizing that the Blue Book is a U.S.-centric sub-set of all
> legal citations, would part of such an effort be the collection of
> current and historical legal citation forms?
> 
> Perhaps a "Comprehensive Legal Citation Guide," informally known
> as the "Black Book?"
> 
> Produced in electronic format it could be displayed with the 
> appropriate local priority on legal citation resources, unlike the 
> Blue Book for example.
> 
> Hope everyone is having a great weekend!
> 
> Patrick
> 
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- -- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB)
Former Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net
Homepage: http://www.durusau.net
Twitter: patrickDurusau
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