RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee

[Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov]

John,

I can't resist responding as a member of Legal XML, rather than OXCI.  Are
you suggesting that we use SOAP to transact directly from the EFSP to the
CMS without using an EFM at all to mediate the transactions?  If so, that is
certainly a major departure from the architectural concepts that Legal XML
has followed in the past (or at least my understanding of them).  Just
checking, since I am certainly open to consideration of all possibilities.

I believe OXCI would like to mirror as closely as possible the proposed
Legal XML architecture for Version 2.0 (Blue) of the standards, when it
exists, without making any more architectural decisions than would be
appropriate for an implementer of standards (rather than a setter of them).
I would love to see the business process subcommittee of Legal XML get out
ahead of the OXCI project, since the required business models drive
implementation decisions almost as much as they drive standards
requirements.  To the extent that implementers get out ahead of the
standards, commercial vendors will be in a much better position to evolve
their EFM offerings (to remain in compliance) as the Legal XML standards
mature.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Messing [mailto:jmessing@law-on-line.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 8:13 AM
To: Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com; drdaniels@bearingpoint.net;
legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org; Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov
Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee

Then in the same spirit I would like to pose a question to the consortium
whether OXCI can do anything more or better than XSLT and ordinary web
services such asp.net together. If not, and the latter are standardarized
and freely available, why not consider using them instead?

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov
Date:  Fri, 27 Dec 2002 08:02:21 -0800

>Well, I hesitate to speak for the OXCI consortium when some of these
>architectural decisions have not been finalized by either the OXCI
>Consortium or Legal XML.  OXCI is intended to be an EFM reference
>implementation.  As such, it does need API's for interacting with an EFSP,
>Court Policy, Court CDC, a CMS and a DMS.
>
>It also assumes the existence of a CMS/DMS-unique Adapter that stands
>between the EFM and the CMS/DMS.  The Adapter handles some of the
>translation duties, since the OXCI group suspects that to do otherwise
would
>put an unrealistic burden on the EFM, Court Policy and Court CDC.  Some
>vendors suggested that might be the case during discussion of the last
Court
>Policy version.
>
>I would like to refer any additional questions about OXCI to Greg Arnold,
>who leads the OXCI Consortium. 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Messing [mailto:jmessing@comcast.net] 
>Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 5:40 PM
>To: Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov; Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG); John Messing;
>Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint); legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
>
>I understood that OXCI was a way of parsing the xml and sending it to the
>CMS-API for translation into methods and properties that the legacy CMS
>systems could use. Are you saying that OXCI does otherwise?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov>
>To: <Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com>; <jmessing@law-on-line.com>;
><drdaniels@bearingpoint.net>; <legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org>
>Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:48 AM
>Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
>
>
>> I just want to respond to John's comment about OXCI.  OXCI is looking
>> closely at using a web services approach to all API's and reusing
>> appropriate parts of Version 3.0 of the Justice XML Data Dictionary
>schema.
>> In any case, it is likely that schema will be used instead of DTD's and
>the
>> standard web services messaging protocol (either SOAP 1.2 or ebXML
>Messaging
>> 2.0) will be used.  The California 2GEFS project is the one not planning
>to
>> use web services.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)
>[mailto:Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com]
>> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 6:35 AM
>> To: 'John Messing'; Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY); 'Daniels, Dwight
>> (BearingPoint)'; CourtFiling List (E-mail)
>> Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
>>
>> These are possible effects of effort described. This will occur when we
>look
>> at the functions supported by these technologies and how they apply to a
>> better defined set of Models required by the community.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Don
>>
>> Donald L. Bergeron
>> Data & Systems Architect
>> donald.bergeron@lexisnexis.com
>>
>> 937-865-1276 O
>> 937-748-2775 H
>> 937-672-7781 M
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Messing [mailto:jmessing@comcast.net]
>> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:01 AM
>> To: Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY); 'Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint)';
>> CourtFiling List (E-mail); EFiling Process List (E-mail)
>> Cc: Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)
>> Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
>>
>>
>> I think we need to look at
>>
>> 1. web services as a replacement for CMS-API and OXCI, which are now
>> outdated technologies in my opinion, and focus on exposing the methods of
>> the case management systems to the web directly through XML web services;
>> and
>>
>> 2. look to Schemas and RDF solutions being developed in parallel so as to
>> stay abreast of the technological curve.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)" <Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com>
>> To: "'Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint)'" <drdaniels@bearingpoint.net>;
>> "CourtFiling List (E-mail)" <legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org>;
>> "EFiling Process List (E-mail)"
>> <legalxml-courtfiling-processmodels@lists.oasis-open.org>
>> Cc: "Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)" <Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com>
>> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 6:51 AM
>> Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
>>
>>
>> > I will join in this effort and urge the members of the community to
>> actively
>> > participate. Purely technical nor purely court policies and procedures
>> exist
>> > in a vacuum.  Business Policy(fee charging, fee payment...), Security
>> > Policy(trusted partners, arms length...) and Related Telecommunication
>> > Policy all have different Models from which the courts may choose. We
>must
>> > as a community look at the interactions between these models and their
>> > implications.
>> >
>> > Understanding these will prepare us for doing a sound set of
>requirements
>> > for Court Filing Blue and the specification that result.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Don
>> >
>> > Donald L. Bergeron
>> > Data & Systems Architect
>> > donald.bergeron@lexisnexis.com
>> >
>> > 937-865-1276 O
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint)
[mailto:drdaniels@bearingpoint.net]
>> > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 3:54 PM
>> > To: CourtFiling List (E-mail); EFiling Process List (E-mail)
>> > Subject: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
>> >
>> >
>> > As you have probably seen from John Greacen's summary of the Las Vegas
>> > meeting, the CMS-API subcommittee has undergone a transformation. It is
>> now
>> > the EFiling Process Models subcommittee. I am tasked with composing the
>> > first draft of the statement of work for the subcommittee and
>> disseminating
>> > it prior to the January 6th conference call, but I wanted to take this
>> > opportunity to give you an idea of what the committee's objectives are
>and
>> > to encourge participation among those interested.
>> >
>> > In a nutshell, the committee felt that we needed to get a better
>> > understanding of the various conceptual process models for electronic
>> filing
>> > that exist in the community, document those models and compare them for
>> > commonalities and differences. Through this process we will be seeking
>to
>> > identify the intersection points among the various models and to
>evaluate
>> > those points as candidates for APIs to be defined in subsequent work.
>> >
>> > The focus of this work is not technical. It is process oriented. As
>such,
>> > the input and assistance of non-technical practitioners is crucial. The
>> more
>> > we get, the more likely we will be to succeed. I therefore strongly
>> encourge
>> > those who have a vision for what the business process flow (or flows)
of
>> > electronic filing should look like to join us in this effort.
>> >
>> > Dwight R. Daniels | Manager | BearingPoint | Costa Mesa, CA
>> > Office +1.714.957.4835 | Project +1.714.568.5697 | Mobile
>+1.805.990.9994
>> > www.bearingpoint.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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