Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee

[John Messing <jmessing@law-on-line.com>]

The short answer to your question about SOAP is emphatically and unequivocally yes.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov>
To: <jmessing@law-on-line.com>; <Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com>; <drdaniels@bearingpoint.net>; <legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 9:29 AM
Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee


> John,
> 
> I can't resist responding as a member of Legal XML, rather than OXCI.  Are
> you suggesting that we use SOAP to transact directly from the EFSP to the
> CMS without using an EFM at all to mediate the transactions?  If so, that is
> certainly a major departure from the architectural concepts that Legal XML
> has followed in the past (or at least my understanding of them).  Just
> checking, since I am certainly open to consideration of all possibilities.
> 
> I believe OXCI would like to mirror as closely as possible the proposed
> Legal XML architecture for Version 2.0 (Blue) of the standards, when it
> exists, without making any more architectural decisions than would be
> appropriate for an implementer of standards (rather than a setter of them).
> I would love to see the business process subcommittee of Legal XML get out
> ahead of the OXCI project, since the required business models drive
> implementation decisions almost as much as they drive standards
> requirements.  To the extent that implementers get out ahead of the
> standards, commercial vendors will be in a much better position to evolve
> their EFM offerings (to remain in compliance) as the Legal XML standards
> mature.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Messing [mailto:jmessing@law-on-line.com] 
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 8:13 AM
> To: Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com; drdaniels@bearingpoint.net;
> legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org; Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov
> Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
> 
> Then in the same spirit I would like to pose a question to the consortium
> whether OXCI can do anything more or better than XSLT and ordinary web
> services such asp.net together. If not, and the latter are standardarized
> and freely available, why not consider using them instead?
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov
> Date:  Fri, 27 Dec 2002 08:02:21 -0800
> 
> >Well, I hesitate to speak for the OXCI consortium when some of these
> >architectural decisions have not been finalized by either the OXCI
> >Consortium or Legal XML.  OXCI is intended to be an EFM reference
> >implementation.  As such, it does need API's for interacting with an EFSP,
> >Court Policy, Court CDC, a CMS and a DMS.
> >
> >It also assumes the existence of a CMS/DMS-unique Adapter that stands
> >between the EFM and the CMS/DMS.  The Adapter handles some of the
> >translation duties, since the OXCI group suspects that to do otherwise
> would
> >put an unrealistic burden on the EFM, Court Policy and Court CDC.  Some
> >vendors suggested that might be the case during discussion of the last
> Court
> >Policy version.
> >
> >I would like to refer any additional questions about OXCI to Greg Arnold,
> >who leads the OXCI Consortium. 
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: John Messing [mailto:jmessing@comcast.net] 
> >Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 5:40 PM
> >To: Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov; Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG); John Messing;
> >Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint); legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org
> >Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
> >
> >I understood that OXCI was a way of parsing the xml and sending it to the
> >CMS-API for translation into methods and properties that the legacy CMS
> >systems could use. Are you saying that OXCI does otherwise?
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Tom.Clarke@courts.wa.gov>
> >To: <Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com>; <jmessing@law-on-line.com>;
> ><drdaniels@bearingpoint.net>; <legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:48 AM
> >Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
> >
> >
> >> I just want to respond to John's comment about OXCI.  OXCI is looking
> >> closely at using a web services approach to all API's and reusing
> >> appropriate parts of Version 3.0 of the Justice XML Data Dictionary
> >schema.
> >> In any case, it is likely that schema will be used instead of DTD's and
> >the
> >> standard web services messaging protocol (either SOAP 1.2 or ebXML
> >Messaging
> >> 2.0) will be used.  The California 2GEFS project is the one not planning
> >to
> >> use web services.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)
> >[mailto:Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 6:35 AM
> >> To: 'John Messing'; Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY); 'Daniels, Dwight
> >> (BearingPoint)'; CourtFiling List (E-mail)
> >> Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
> >>
> >> These are possible effects of effort described. This will occur when we
> >look
> >> at the functions supported by these technologies and how they apply to a
> >> better defined set of Models required by the community.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> >> Donald L. Bergeron
> >> Data & Systems Architect
> >> donald.bergeron@lexisnexis.com
> >>
> >> 937-865-1276 O
> >> 937-748-2775 H
> >> 937-672-7781 M
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Messing [mailto:jmessing@comcast.net]
> >> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:01 AM
> >> To: Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY); 'Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint)';
> >> CourtFiling List (E-mail); EFiling Process List (E-mail)
> >> Cc: Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)
> >> Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
> >>
> >>
> >> I think we need to look at
> >>
> >> 1. web services as a replacement for CMS-API and OXCI, which are now
> >> outdated technologies in my opinion, and focus on exposing the methods of
> >> the case management systems to the web directly through XML web services;
> >> and
> >>
> >> 2. look to Schemas and RDF solutions being developed in parallel so as to
> >> stay abreast of the technological curve.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)" <Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com>
> >> To: "'Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint)'" <drdaniels@bearingpoint.net>;
> >> "CourtFiling List (E-mail)" <legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org>;
> >> "EFiling Process List (E-mail)"
> >> <legalxml-courtfiling-processmodels@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >> Cc: "Bergeron, Donald L. (LNG-DAY)" <Donald.Bergeron@lexisnexis.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 6:51 AM
> >> Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
> >>
> >>
> >> > I will join in this effort and urge the members of the community to
> >> actively
> >> > participate. Purely technical nor purely court policies and procedures
> >> exist
> >> > in a vacuum.  Business Policy(fee charging, fee payment...), Security
> >> > Policy(trusted partners, arms length...) and Related Telecommunication
> >> > Policy all have different Models from which the courts may choose. We
> >must
> >> > as a community look at the interactions between these models and their
> >> > implications.
> >> >
> >> > Understanding these will prepare us for doing a sound set of
> >requirements
> >> > for Court Filing Blue and the specification that result.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Don
> >> >
> >> > Donald L. Bergeron
> >> > Data & Systems Architect
> >> > donald.bergeron@lexisnexis.com
> >> >
> >> > 937-865-1276 O
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Daniels, Dwight (BearingPoint)
> [mailto:drdaniels@bearingpoint.net]
> >> > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 3:54 PM
> >> > To: CourtFiling List (E-mail); EFiling Process List (E-mail)
> >> > Subject: [legalxml-courtfiling] EFiling Process Models Subcommittee
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > As you have probably seen from John Greacen's summary of the Las Vegas
> >> > meeting, the CMS-API subcommittee has undergone a transformation. It is
> >> now
> >> > the EFiling Process Models subcommittee. I am tasked with composing the
> >> > first draft of the statement of work for the subcommittee and
> >> disseminating
> >> > it prior to the January 6th conference call, but I wanted to take this
> >> > opportunity to give you an idea of what the committee's objectives are
> >and
> >> > to encourge participation among those interested.
> >> >
> >> > In a nutshell, the committee felt that we needed to get a better
> >> > understanding of the various conceptual process models for electronic
> >> filing
> >> > that exist in the community, document those models and compare them for
> >> > commonalities and differences. Through this process we will be seeking
> >to
> >> > identify the intersection points among the various models and to
> >evaluate
> >> > those points as candidates for APIs to be defined in subsequent work.
> >> >
> >> > The focus of this work is not technical. It is process oriented. As
> >such,
> >> > the input and assistance of non-technical practitioners is crucial. The
> >> more
> >> > we get, the more likely we will be to succeed. I therefore strongly
> >> encourge
> >> > those who have a vision for what the business process flow (or flows)
> of
> >> > electronic filing should look like to join us in this effort.
> >> >
> >> > Dwight R. Daniels | Manager | BearingPoint | Costa Mesa, CA
> >> > Office +1.714.957.4835 | Project +1.714.568.5697 | Mobile
> >+1.805.990.9994
> >> > www.bearingpoint.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
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