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Subject: IRC log from our meeting on 2016-01-27

Our next meeting will be on the 10th of February:

The teleconference login data for next call will be found in the OASIS calendar event:

Please find the IRC log of today's meeting below:
Attendees: Patrick, Peter, Svante

[16:26] Svante Schubert: Hello Peter, dialing in
[16:30] Peter Rakyta: Hi Svante
[16:31] Svante Schubert: Regarding my mail 
about the XPath suggestion from Patrick see thread on
[16:31] Svante Schubert: The quite long XPath _expression_ of the <text:span> containing the 'A' within the list:
How does a character selection work?
[16:33] Patrick: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><text:span xmlns:office="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:office:1.0" xmlns:style="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:style:1.0" xmlns:text="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:text:1.0" xmlns:table="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:table:1.0" xmlns:draw="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:drawing:1.0" xmlns:fo="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:xsl-fo-compatible:1.0" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:meta="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:meta:1.0" xmlns:number="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:datastyle:1.0" xmlns:svg="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:svg-compatible:1.0" xmlns:chart="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:chart:1.0" xmlns:dr3d="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:dr3d:1.0" xmlns:math="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" xmlns:form="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:form:1.0" xmlns:script="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:script:1.0" xmlns:ooo="http://openoffice.org/2004/office" xmlns:ooow="http:
//openoffice.org/2004/writer" xmlns:oooc="http://openoffice.org/2004/calc" xmlns:dom="http://www.w3.org/2001/xml-events" xmlns:xforms="http://www.w3.org/2002/xforms" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:rpt="http://openoffice.org/2005/report" xmlns:of="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:of:1.2" xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:grddl="http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-vie
xmlns:formx="urn:openoffice:names:experimental:ooxml-odf-interop:xmlns:form:1.0" xmlns:css3t="http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/" text:style-name="T1">A</text:span>~/working/odf/changetrack
[16:33] Patrick: /text)[9]/text:span[1]
[16:34] Patrick: (doc("content.xml")//text:p)[9]/text:span[1]
[16:37] Patrick: string(doc)("content.xml")//text:p)[9]/text:span[1]
[16:38] Svante Schubert: If span has multiple character or multiple span the above example gets more complicated for XPath
[16:39] Svante Schubert: And if I want to insert a table:table and there are other components like images there would be an ambiguity, righ?
[16:40] Svante Schubert: like paragraph, image, image and paragraph and we want to insert inbetween the images we need to use an xpath with images
[16:41] Patrick: <text:p><image><text:p>
[16:43] Svante Schubert: OT gets more complicated. If a paragraph becomes a heading it would influence other XPath, right?
[16:45] Patrick: /text:p)[9]/text:span[1]
[16:47] Svante Schubert: The advantage of your solution
  is inde
ed that the referencing is working on other XPath implementations.
[16:50] Svante Schubert: The number referencing I have proposed is the least common denominator abstracting from XML (even ODF & OOXML in my mail example) and as well application models.
[16:53] Svante Schubert: Patrick: As long we are an XML standard, we should use XPath as XML referencing model.
[16:54] Svante Schubert: Patrick: As it is defined already and used often
[16:57] Svante Schubert: Svante: Patrick's approach would work when using this subset.
[16:58] Svante Schubert: Patrick: Did not want to 
 use XPat
h in its full glory, but only a small subset
[17:00] Svante Schubert: Patrick, the notation with numbers only is just a abbreviation of XPath and can be expanded..
[17:02] Svante Schubert: well, I guess it is more, as if there is an image with multiple alternative images it is still only one image component. So you can not count draw:image
[17:02] Svante Schubert: The abbreviation for //*[text:p | table:table | .. ][1]/ is /1
[17:02] Svante Schubert: You can count draw:frame as there are other frames, which are not images
[17:05] Svante Schubert: I guess you can address ever
 y part o
f an XML document with XPath
[17:06] Svante Schubert: It is only not easy readable and interpretable by humans and applications not knowing Xpath so far
[17:07] Svante Schubert: ODF Style inheritance might be problematic
[17:09] Svante Schubert: What about we are using an abbreviation for the serialization and you are defining the XPath in the specification?
[17:09] Svante Schubert: I can not remember: Is the XPath Whitespace normalizing compatible with the one from ODF?
[17:10] Svante Schubert: How do you map it?
[17:10] Svante Schubert: Patrick: Best way is not to use character counting, but use regex expressions
 1] <
b>Svante Schubert: Remember that we should be able to alternate the order of operations and adopt operations to keep creating the same document.
[17:23] Svante Schubert: --
[17:23] Svante Schubert: Peter: It is not very convenient to merge changes of different documents, when only using UNDO changes.
[17:24] Svante Schubert: As I answered in my mail https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-collab/201601/msg00021.html
< /div>
[17:24] Svante Schubert: I think it would be a little bit too much for the applications
[17:25] Svante Schubert: We are using the UNDO operations as we only tweaked the existing ODF application methods using XML before state.
[17:26] Svante Schubert: Peter: The downside of the existing approach you always have to read the content and the operations.
[17:28] Svante Schubert: The design choice was to stick close existing applications model and to not save redundant DO operations.
[17:29] Svante Schubert: The idea was that Merge is far less being used to make this necessary. But it is true it is no
 t very c
onvenient to the merge szenario.
[17:30] Svante Schubert: More get more complexity by keeping DO and UNDO stack in synch.
[17:31] Svante Schubert: The goal was to keep the design as simple as possible..
[17:32] Svante Schubert: Peter: Only wants not UNDO & DO, but only DO
[17:32] Svante Schubert: Than we have the compatibility problem that the content is not representing the latest state.
[17:34] Svante Schubert: The next meeting will be at the 10th of February.
Best regards, Svante

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