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Subject: Summary 2010-09-14 of OpenFormula meeting
Summary 2010-09-14 of OpenFormula meeting (As always, please reply-all with corrections.) Attendees: David A. Wheeler Andreas G. Eric Patterson Patrick D. Dennis Hamilton Rob Weir Not attending: Eike Rathke (he sent his regrets) We WILL meet next Tuesday. Note: For our current status, see the dashboard: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=10056 TOPICS: Focused first on NEEDS-DISCUSSION, then Unresolved untargeted unassigned. * OFFICE-3342 http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-3342 Dennis found some important stuff, pointed to by Andreas & others. Dennis confirmed that we ONLY need to talk about IRIs. Dennis has promised to provide the supporting information to document this (e.g., document names & section names) in this JIRA comment. Dennis will subdivide this for part 1, part 2, part 3 (part 3 is probably most challenging), and will remove NEEDS-DISCUSSION. So there will be an update within 48 hours on this one. For part 2, URI will change to IRI everywhere (essentially). IRI includes URI as a subset. This will shorten syntax definition considerably, makes it crisper. * OFFICE-3040 http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-3040 Rob has verified that this is the correct formula. Eric P: This is not a function that Excel currently has. Andreas: OOo does use the corrected formula. Rob will remove NEEDS-DISCUSSION, and state this resolution. * OFFICE-2663 (What is a "character"?) http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-2663 Dennis: The resulting value may differ depending on normalization. Rob: We're saying whether or not normalization occurs; either it does or it doesn't. Wheeler: We're allowing normalization, but not requiring it. Wheeler: I believe *all* functions that accept/product Text types are affected by normalization. {Long complication discussion here, below is only a subset.} Dennis: I'd like to say that operations just operate on characters. Rob: Then we're back to "what is a character". Patrick: Alex's original comment was about the CODE function. As far as the original comment is concerned, so we've literally answered this comment, and normalization is not an issue. Rob: We found a broader issue. Wheeler: The UNICODE function does have the broader issue. Dennis: XPATH is very careful to avoid this issue. Rob: That's equivalent to what I say as "undefined". Wheeler: What about combining characters? Rob: Think about LEN; is char followed by combining char one character? Rob: The output could be in a different encoding. Wheeler: Imagine concatenating with a cell value, and that cell contains just a combining character. Dennis: Right. Rob: We need Unicode normalization functions in ODF-Next. Wheeler: This clearly NEEDS-DISCUSSION for the future. Dennis: I doubt implementations' functions normalize text on every input. Systems may normalize when they read from users {or when reading a file?}. Rob: With Thai, etc., they will get composed. Another good read, but only a draft, is a W3C note on normalization. Eric: Aren't we overthinking this? Dennis: Simply just not caring is easy. E.G., letter 'e' is a char, a combining char is a char, concatenating them is length 2. If we ran it through normalization then we'd get length 1, but that's a different issue. Eric: We aren't defining what happens from file->memory, or from input->memory. We just need to say what happens when they get what they get. Rob: Could say "no additional normalization applied". Wheeler: "It is implementation-defined if normalization is applied while reading text or from the user." Wheeler: You can't know if it's normalized. (Will continue to discuss.) BELOW: Unresolved untargeted unassigned comments. * http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-2702 ODF-Next. * http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-3426 No action. That capability exists, we have a FORMULA function. * http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-3428 Dennis: I've done this manually by saving as CSV. Andreas: Paste special values can replace formulas with values (OOo, Gnumeric, Excel). Rob: Nobody has multiple formula engines, so this is a non-problem. Dennis: There are kind-of ways to do it, though not as simple as throwing a switch. This is late, and we know of no spreadsheet implementations that do this directly, so it seems unwise to add this to the specification. Eric: There are some add-on packages that do this sort of thing, e.g., Monte Carlo simulators. We'll put this in ODF-Next. We WILL meet next week. --- David A. Wheeler
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