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Subject: Re: [office] Proposal for Radio Button grouping


I also didn't understand the need for group names when the existing name
can do the same. The name even doesn't have to be anything reasonable,
since it's IMHO internally used only, nothing the user or AT must
see/read. (A sighted user also won't see it when just using the form).

If the user should see anything, it's then up to the author to provide a
group box or something else, which then can have a name and description.

Which leads me to the question: Very often you don't have group boxes
anymore, but simply a label, maybe with some line.

How can I specify that the label belongs to the group?

Make the XML elements children of that element?


Bob Jolliffe wrote, On 05.08.08 18:24:
> Thinking some more about grouping, I still don't see thast there is any
> need to have a group-name for radio buttons.  They are already logically
> grouped by the name.  I imagine a screenreader, for example, would treat
> the set in the same way as a select control and read "select w,x,y or z"
> for the named radio buttons.
> Checkboxes (and other controls) on the other hand may indeed benefit
> from grouping in order to render the semantics of  "select all of the
> following which apply".  Perhaps this grouping could be reasonably
> achieved through a <form:frame> element which already does support
> <form:name>, <form:label> and <form:title> attributes.  As a
> recommendation one could then specify that all input controls which form
> a coherent group should be contained within a <form:frame> with a
> name/label/title which could be exposed to the accessibility API
> (regardless of whether this frame is a visible element or not).  This
> seems to be the closest equivalent of a html frameset.
> Alternatively these, and perhaps all, elements should have a
> form:group-name attribute, but I prefer the approach above.
> Regards
> Bob
> 2008/8/5 Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com
> <mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com>>
>     Rob,
>     We will need to ensure there is a name we can expose to the
>     accessibility API. Is form:group-name or name="string" the name of
>     the group that will be rendered? If not we will need to add
>     <svg:title> somewhere in there for the short name.
>     Rich
>     Rich Schwerdtfeger
>     Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
>     Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
>     blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
>     Inactive hide details for Robert Weir/Cambridge/IBM@LotusRobert
>     Weir/Cambridge/IBM@Lotus
>                             *Robert Weir/Cambridge/IBM@Lotus*
>                             08/04/08 10:29 AM
>     To
>     office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org
>     <mailto:office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org>
>     cc
>     office@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:office@lists.oasis-open.org>
>     Subject
>     [office] Proposal for Radio Button grouping
>     As you probably know, ODF currently defines the exclusive selection
>     semantics of radio controls based on radio controls with the same name,
>     similar to how this is done in HTML:
>     ODF 1.1, section 11.3.14:    "The <form:radio> element describes
>     controls
>     which act like check boxes except that when several radio buttons share
>     the same control name they are mutually exclusive. When one button
>     is on,
>     all of the other buttons with the same name are off. If no radio
>     button is
>     initially on, the way in which the application chooses which button to
>     turn on initially is undefined."
>     On today's ODF TC call the following ODF 1.2 proposal was discussed:  
>     http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/Grouping_for_Radio_Elements
>     This proposal would add a form:group-name attribute to the form:radio
>     element in section 11.3.14, as an alternative way to specify grouped
>     radio
>     buttons.  It is not stated how to resolve situations where both
>     grouping
>     methods are in simultaneous, possibly contradictory use.
>     The Proposer has requested a vote on this proposal for next Monday.  If
>     the Accessibility SC has any comments, please send them to the TC by
>     Friday.
>     Thanks,
>     -Rob
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