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Subject: Notes from 4 May 2020 - ODF TC teleconference
Greetings! Notes from today's ODF TC teleconference are below. Hope everyone is having a great week! Patrick ********* anonymous morphed into Svante Svante morphed into Svante Schubert Svante Schubert: Good morning, everyone Patrick: Amended Agenda for 4 May 2020 ODF Teleconference 1. Dial-In, Roll Call, Determination of Quorum and Voting Rights 2. Motion (simple majority): Approve the Agenda 3. Motion (simple majority): Approve minutes of 27 April 2020 (below) 4. ODF Later issues (Preference to current TC members and cycling through their issues so no one is on the spot for all of them in a meeting), btw, limiting the search to open/deferred issues counts 134: https://issues.oasis-open.org/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20OFFICE%20AND%20status%20in%20(Open%2C%20Deferred)%20AND%20fixVersion%20in%20(%22ODF%201.4%22%2C%20ODF-Next)%20ORDER%20BY%20reporter%20ASC ) 5. Issues a. QNAME error in manifest schema Michael Stahl) https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202004/msg00016.html Now reads (incorrect) <rng:data type="QName"> ÂÂÂÂÂ <rngïaram name="pattern">[^ï:[^ï</rngïaram> ÂÂÂ </rng:data> Should read: <rng:data type="QName"> Correction (thanks Michael)ÂÂÂÂÂ <rngïaram name="pattern">[^ï+:[^ï+</rngïaram> ÂÂÂ </rng:data> Michael notes this is correct in the document schema but not here. I'll try to check with Chet before our meeting on correcting as editing error. Added: Chet reports we should file a request for errata, which will trigger him searching for an easier way to make this fix. (as per Patrick) b. 4.7 Empty Cell terminology Discussion since our last meeting: Proposal by Regina Henschel: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00000.html Response by Andreas Guelzow: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00001.html Response by Regina Henschel: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00002.html Responses by Andreas Guelzow: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00003.html https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00004.html Added: Comment by Svante Schubert - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00006.html Added: Latest proposal by Regina (today): https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00008.html Added: 6: Holiday reminders for May 2020: No meeting May 18th - Queen Victoria No meeting May 25th - Memorial Day 7. Adjournment Patrick: have quorum Patrick: Minutes from last time, unchanged by the agenda modifications: ***** Minutes 27 April 2020 Patrick: Quorum - yes Patrick: Agenda - approved by consent Patrick: Minutes 20 April 2020 - approved by consent Patrick: 4.7 Empty Cell terminlogy Patrick: Regina - empty cell - can have content that is not considered for calculations Patrick: Regina - don't say empty cell in general but say empty cell when referenced by a formula Patrick: Regina - can use whether office:value-type exists, if not, is empty for purposes of calculations Patrick: Andreas - tricky b/c don't use value types - know when cell is "empty" Patrick: 12 in my example - was representation of the 12 Patrick: Andreas - value type might be the right thing to do Patrick: value type void - means we don't have a value Patrick: void should be the behavior if the value type is not specified at all Patrick: Regina says void not listed in the schema - Patrick: Francis - is there a function to return the type of a cell? Patrick: (void has no attribute in Table 14) as as if attribute is missing) Patrick: TYPE - returns number for type of value number, text, logical, error, array in 6.13.33 Patrick: in table 14 - boolean, currency, dat, float, percentage, string, time, void - Regina Henschel: CELL has "b" (blank), "l" (label or text), "v" (number) Patrick: Francis - will empty be an emergent property based upon others being false? Patrick: Francis - if using office:value-type - would need to make sure it works Patrick: Rich - would need to run it by internal contacts before stating an opinion Patrick: A cell is an empty cell when referenced by a formula and the referenced cell has no office:value-type attribute. Patrick: Blank would have an office:value-type attribute but no content Patrick: Regina - when referenced in a formula - and no office:value-type - empty Patrick: Contextual use of "empty" - at least one is in the context of a formula referencing a cell - it looks for the office:value-type - Not defining "empty" in other contexts or usage Patrick: Francis - use special typography for "empty cell" in this context (from Regina) Patrick: Alfred - will ask internal sources at MS if this is clear, etc. Patrick: adjourned Start of today's meeting: Patrick: agenda - approved by consent Patrick: Minutes from 27 April 2020 - approved by consent Patrick: Oasis errata process - https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/tc-process-2017-05-26#errata Patrick: Michael notes not an OASIS standard so errata process doesn't fit Patrick: Question becomes how to avoid creating a new specification in order to fix a schema error Patrick: Perhaps better, we don't have a light weight way to fix minor errors without a new specification - Patrick: heavy solution - new specification - alternative solution -- ask Chet- Patrick: Michael, if nothing faster, then do another specification - Patrick: Svante - need a flow chart of the defect process - defect report at a certain stage Patrick: Patrick - will have answer on process at least, perhaps not the chart, by 11 May meeting Patrick: Regina - empty cell proposal - latest https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/202005/msg00008.html Svante Schubert: Let me rephrase emptycell to has no cell value: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part2.html#ISBLANK Patrick: Svante - empty string an empty value? - what is blank? cell without value? Patrick: Andreas - values are not specified as paragraphs - values are in attributes - if don't give a value, figure out from content - that's a problem Patrick: Andreas - problem is where there is no value specified - no value type, look at content to figure out what it is, don't know what empty paragraph means - it's an interpretation issue Patrick: Andreas - if applications don't agree what it means - Patrick: Svante - could say for ODF version - here is the semantic agreement Patrick: Andreas - what is proposed is don't do this - Patrick: From the proposal - second paragraph - It is implementation-dependent whether the markup <table:table-cell><textï/></table:table-cell> is an "empty cell" or not. For interoperability producers should not write such markup, but add an office:value-type="string" attribute in case a cell with empty string is intended, or omit the empty child element <textï/> in case an "empty cell" is intended. Patrick: minor correction: "for which non" to "for which none" Svante Schubert: I just looked into the ODF RelaxNG all XML nodes beyond table:table-cell are optional. Patrick: Svante, wants to work out the range of proposals - Patrick: Regina - spreadsheets also represent database data - makes a difference if exists as a field or exist and had not value - Patrick: Svante - what does the XML allow - Patrick: Defer to 11 May, Svante will file a more detailed proposal Patrick: Regina - empty cell equal to ISBLANK - cannot say from XML that cell is empty - can have chart-elements so not considered for formulas - cannot use only XML to describe it Patrick: Alfred - first create cell - it is not empty when creating a new sheet - Regina outlines the steps - used Office 365 Patrick: Regina - different value on re-opening than when editing (creation) Patrick: Alfred agrees - Patrick: Regina - need an overview over the tools to produce links - template for specification Patrick: Would want to have version for ODF 1.4 - so we can incorporate immediately - Patrick: Patrick - need to request templates from Chet for ODF 1.4 - Svante Schubert: https://tdf.github.io/odftoolkit/docs/odf1.3/OpenDocument-v1.3-cs01-schema-rng.html Svante Schubert: This is an RNG (RelaxNG Grammar) as HTML with lnks Svante Schubert: links Patrick: That's clever! Andreas Guelzow: indeed Patrick: Michael - there was a subversion repository - Patrick: Svante - Github has many tools Michael Stahl: [svn-remote "svn"] url = https://tools.oasis-open.org/version-control/svn/office Patrick: Regina - current specification is based on 1.1 - list styles - should update to more recent list styles - old paragraph and character styles - need a guide to the style in which situation Patrick: adjourned -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau
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