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Subject: Re: [oiic-formation-discuss] (1)(f) and (1)(g) -- audience and working language

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/6/12 Peter Dolding <oiaohm@gmail.com>:
>> Pixel perfect not a good target.
> I think we all agree it's not achievable. Makes an easily remembered
> phrase though :-)
>> Location  and size perfect scaled up
>> or down to page should be 100 percent acquirable without question.
> Agree, but only when constrained by a 'profile' (if that is what we
> are going to call different use cases).
> In a desktop environment, where printing is used.
>  If
>> same document is printed A4 and A5 and user wishes the A5 document
>> should only be a smaller form of the A4 document.  Scalable formating.
> -1. Scaling and 'location and size' need to be described better.
> Are we talking about a printed output from an application, or screen
> positioning?
> Using printed output is far easier (though yet again it is a manual test, not
> automatable)
> Take a word processor instance. Print it out using A4 setting. Measure
> position of (some part of the content). Should be x,y mm +- z mm wrt top left.
100 percent sure did not make it clear enough.

Note printers have different dead area space.   The area you cannot
print on.   Some have zero some may have 3 mm or more of unprintable
page space.  x,y mm +- z wrt don't really cut it.

Now you have a document that is a full A4 no slack space.  You have a
printer that has a required dead space at start and end of page. The
page does not fit any more.

Both pages are full A4.   Software needs to be able to scale even if
its asking the user first.  Warning going to scale page to fit.

Fixed distance does not really cut it.   Its more We have a lines of
dashs down the page and across the page.  Each line should have X
number of dashs in each dash line.  Due to different length lines at
particularity points in end of a line should be half way across
This could be text too where a X in a line should line up with the X
on the next line and the like.

Layout perfect is not that everything is exactly X size.   Its that
everything is the same ratios or if user chosen compressed slightly in
one direction but the up down ratios and the left right ratios are
still correct.   Bit like standard def tv pushed into widescreen tv.
That is layout perfect.   The layout is correct sizes is up to hell
but at times that does not matter.

I should never have used size it gave the wrong idea .  To scale is
more correct . .   Now if everything is ratio perfect two odf programs
printing on the same size bit of paper and the same printer with the
same fonts should produce exactly the same document.  Other than maybe
font rendering issues but even then the char sizes should be the same.

Printed from two different printers there has to be allowances for
some printer caused tolerance issues.  Everything might be to scale
but one might be slightly larger than the other.

Also allowed ratio changing should allow letter and a4 sized documents
to be printed on each others papers out of size but to scale.  Now
before you say no way Odf printer documents will have to do evil like
this.   You might have a printer that does 600x600 dpi and another
that does 750x600 dpi or some other strange number  ODF application
has to be able to scale document in across and down the page to fit
the printers resultion.  PDF already part deals with these devils.

Printers are a little bit more complex than what people give them
credit for.  Pixel perfect don't cut it 100 percent because of
Printers.  Also pixel perfect has issues even displayed on screen.
Measuring fixed distances its really trying to be pixel perfect.
Measuring distance to ratio printed is layout perfect.

Layout perfect should not be effected by draft either if it is there
is a conversion issue.  Most print runs layout perfect most people
don't care if its slightly off in sizes as long as everything is to
ratio most don't notice.  + or - 2 percent of size on A4 will not be
noticed by most people.  Way off like pushing bits onto next page
sending formatting out window people don't want that and stands out
massively that the document is printed wrong.

Peter Dolding

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