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Subject: Re: [oiic-formation-discuss] Thoughts on interop
2008/6/13 Simon Calderson <caldersons@yahoo.co.uk>: > Some thoughts I've had reviewing the last few days' discussion on this list. What strikes me is two things; a. a focus on replicating 'acid test' for ODF, and b. a focus on visual interop. I think both these things are mistaken. Please be assured they are the recent topics, not the sole interest of the group. > > To relate these issues back to the topic at hand, I'm not sure why the output of an interop TC would be of genuine use to > end-users and ODF customers. Ask a user who'se tried to lift documents from Office Suite A to Office Suite B. I've cursed for many hours tidying up after such a transform. >The 'acid test' is a good example of an interop spec. designed such that browsers will fail; it's not a good example of a test >which says much if anything about the overall conformity to a standard.. Indeed, it would be dangerous to moot such interop >tests as a system of validation for ODF implementations I don't think it is that. > it's very easy to use such tests as a cudgel with which to bash vendors, when in reality with a complex standard you can > create tests which even good implementations will fail Not sure about 'very easy', but point taken. > > In my opinion, the output of any interop TC should be focussed primarily for the use of vendors to improve their > implementations, Why 'primarily' please? It's possibly a lot of work for a vendor to improve compliance. If they are the only target it's easy for them to ignore it. > Using a "carrot" approach rather than "stick" makes it much more likely that vendors outside the "big guys" are > going to want to participate, and allows the interop TC to focus on specific areas or features > without putting all the pressure on the vendors whose implementations are weakest in those specific areas. +1 Competition is the other. > > The audience of the interop TC ought to also include the ODF TC. I don't know if this has been mentioned already, > but it's not like the ODF specification is in any way golden or perfect: the interop TC is certainly going to come to > the conclusion that certain features (or lack of features) hinder interop, and it's only the ODF TC who > are able to act on those suggestions. +0. Side effects? :-) (Sticks or carrots?) > > So, my suggestion for audience would be the ODF TC, and ODF vendors. That makes the audience > narrow and specific, and the output can then be tailored to their specific needs. > Trying to address everyone's needs will address none of them well, and trying to use interop cases > as an ODF quality mark is bound to fail. I think the main TC *should* listen to output regardless, but a good addition. I would be loathe to leave the audience so specific though. I don't see more deliverables with a wider audience, do you? > > Finally, I would like to see much more thought given to non-visual interop. Functional definition please Simon? > As a good example, it seems that the formula ctte has already put a lot of effort into test cases to ensure > mathematical consistency and correctness. Such a test system obviously would be of use to the interop TC, > and from my point of view it's vastly more important that the information in a spreadsheet be correct than > that the spreadsheet "looks" right. Ditto for documents - much more important that they can be shared > and edited sanely on different implementations than that they look identical. Non visual as in 'auditory'? Non visual as in xml/schematron validation? Non visual as in parsing formulae in a cell? Definition of 'shared and edited' please? Inter-application? Two locations, same app etc? In general I agree. I wanted to get our rather 'vague' pixel perfect idea out in the open, that was my personal reason for trying to tie it down. I haven't, as yet, to my satisfaction. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk
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