RE: [oiic-formation-discuss] The importance to users of documents looking the same

["Hurley, Garry \(L&I - OIT\)" <ghurley@state.pa.us>]

As an application developer, I can agree with you Radoslav.  What I look for when I write programs as a part of my job is a clear specification.  I want to know "What do you want this program to do?"  and "What data do I need to access?"  The last thing I look at is "What do you want it to look like?"  I care about getting data from point A to point B accurately.  After that, the design is cosmetic.  I will point out something that people may not remember.  If you look at this site:

http://www.automotivechronicles.com/articles/2005/dec/02/index.php

you will see that many people can be fooled by "flashy baubles".  I guess if that weren't true, many of us wouldn't be here - no offense to any ladies on the list - because some women just would not have married the men they did!  All joking aside, however, you need to realize that often we are promised nice, shiny new products and delivered a polished (excuse my vernacular) turd if anything at all.  (Am I the only one who remembers the hype about 'Windows 97'?)

Anyhow, you make an excellent point about leaving presentation to the developer.  All ODF should specify is "how do we store and transmit presentation information?" not "what does it look like?"  For those who point out PDF as contradicting my statement, PDF is a display format.  Take a scanned document, put it through a PDF producing program and then have JAWS read it to you with your eyes closed.  Oh, did you remember to use OCR to scan it in?  As I stated, PDF is concerned with visual display only.  With ODF, we need to be more open to other display media.  Who knows?  Next year someone might invent a "holodeck" like the ones on Star Trek:  The Next Generation.  ODF might well be used to describe a holographic character or object.

Garry L. Hurley Jr.
Application Developer 2
Office of Information Technology - Bureau of Application Development
PA Department of Labor & Industry
651 Boas Street, Harrisburg, PA 17121 
Phone: 717.506.9373 (UCMS) or 717.346.9799 (Harrisburg)  Fax: 717.506.0798  Mobile: 717.649.0597
www.dli.state.pa.us <http://www.dli.state.pa.us>


My comments do not reflect those of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, its various agencies and departments, or its citizens.  They are my own, and may or may not be shared by those in positions of authority over me.


-----Original Message-----
From: Radoslav Dejanovic [mailto:radoslav.dejanovic@opsus.hr]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:35 PM
To: oiic-formation-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [oiic-formation-discuss] The importance to users of documents looking the same


robert_weir@us.ibm.com wrote:

> Putting aside the question of achievability (or not) of "pixel
> perfection", is there anyone here that doubts the proposition that the
> proposed TC can and should improve the interoperability of rendered
> output of ODF applications?
> 
> Put differently, is there anyone who would refuse improvement if it is
> not perfection?
> 
> If not, let's include a goal of improving that area in the charter.  The
> fact that perfection is not possible should not prevent us from doing
> what is doable.

I might be wrong here, but I suppose that interoperability is about
having information sent from point A to point B in such a way that it
does not degrade in the process?

In that case, and this is about something called Open Document Format,
I'd say that while retaining perfect rendering is crucial for things
like images, I do not think that it does matter for, say, a spreadsheet
or a letter to retain perfect alignment or flawless table boundaries, as
long as important data - text, numbers, formula, etc. If I get a letter
from my bank, I do want to be sure that the numbers are correct, I don't
really care whether my office program would render it slightly more to
the left than the original document written on other software.

Rendering documents should be of primary concern to software developers,
and let them handle that, it's their job.

What I really care is, as I said - to get information from A to B -
intact. If the printed documents do not visually match perfectly...
well, I couldn't care less. Pixel perfection should be the goal of
software developers, if they want their product to succeed.

I am not against the pixel perfection goal, but I do think there are
more important issues to be solved before that. And, if you really,
really have to have pixel perfection, use PDF/X.

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