RE: [opencsa-ms] Inter-SCA TC Liaison Committee Charter - FINAL

["Patrick Gannon" <patrick.gannon@oasis-open.org>]

Jeff,

Thank you for clarifying your views on this matter.  I'll insert comments
below.

--
Patrick Gannon
+1.978.761.3546       - mobile



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mischkinsky [mailto:jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:51 PM
> To: Patrick Gannon
> Cc: Graham Barber; opencsa-ms@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [opencsa-ms] Inter-SCA TC Liaison Committee Charter - FINAL
> 
> 
> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:52 PM, Patrick Gannon wrote:
> 
> > Graham and the OpenCSA MS Steering Committee,
> >
> >
> >
> > I can appreciate your desire to move forward with this coordination
> > activity, and I support the creation of this inter-TC liaison group.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was waiting to submit edits until after Jeff posted a revised
> > charter; so attached are edits to the Inter-SCA TC Liaison charter
> > that I am submitting for your review and approval as a revised
> > charter.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have communicated with Jeff M. on this matter and we agree that the
> > changes are primarily semantics and do not change the operational
> > aspects of the charter as you have drafted it.
> 
> Guess i'd better speak for myself. ;-)
> 
> "Semantics", i.e. meaning, is significant to me. So if by "semantics"
> you mean they don't really make a difference, then why bother? What i
believe is
> that it makes no difference if we name the the group a SubCommittee or a
> Committee, or a foobar. The powers are spelled out in the charter, not in
the name.

<PG>It does matter that a Member Section Steering Committee is permitted
(via Roberts Rule) to form a subcommittee.  A MS Steering Committee has been
granted no rights to create another committee.

> 
> I made no comment on the rest of the proposed changes.  I'm not sure i
agree with
> them.
>     There is no requirement that the members of the group be members of
the
> Steering Committee. 


<PG>Again, I quoted from Jamie's quote from Roberts that "sub-committee ...
must consist of members of the committee".  Thus, my expectation is that a
MS Steering Committee's subcommittee must have at least one of its members
who is also a member of the parent committee. It is my understanding that
the Steering Committee intends to have at least one of its members as a
member of the Inter-TC Liaison Subcommittee.  I do not see a problem here.

> In fact most of them will not. 

<PG>I agree. Most of the members of the subcommittee will not be from the
Steering Committee; they'll be from the TCs.  


> The only requirement for a TC to
> recommend someone is that they be a member of the TC - they may or not
work of
> a company that is a member section member. I believe that is clearly
stated in the
> charter. So if you think that calling the group a sub-committee makes a
difference
> wrt that issue, then we have a fundamental disagreement.

<PG>I have no disagreement that OASIS Members may be appointed to the
subcommittee whose employer is not a MS Supporting Entity. They just have to
at least be an OASIS Member.


> 
>   I believe its up to the Steering Committee if it wants to appoint a
steering
> committee member to be on the group. It should not be a requirement.
> 

<PG>Again, I am simply relying on the reading of Roberts Rules that Jamie
provided.  Plus, if this is a subcommittee formed by the Steering Committee,
I would think the Steering Committee would want to designate at least one
person to be on the subcommittee.  


>    I see no reason to restrict who the group can make a recommendation to.
Its up
> to the recipient of a recommendation to decide what to do with it. Are you
> seriously saying that if the group wants to pass a motion and send an
email to
> some other, OASIS group, it shouldn't be allowed to?

<PG>No, not at all. As I said in my earlier email, I do not see the
revisions affecting the operation of the subcommittee.  I don't see where
any of these revisions would restrict to whom the subcommittee can make
recommendations.


> 
>    But these are just my opinions. The Steering Committee can vote and
decide on
> each of these suggestions.
> 

<PG> Our OASIS Board call on Oct 26th is from 8-10am PT, overlapping with
the OpenCSA MS StC call.  If the OpenCSA MS StC would like to have further
input from myself or Jeff on this issue, then a vote on the revisions should
be re-scheduled to the next call on 2 Nov.



> cheers,
>    jeff
> > The changes I made in the attached draft achieve the following:
> >
> >
> >
> > -          Label this new group as a “subcommittee” of the OpenCSA
> > MS Steering Committee.  You received communication from Jamie Clark on
> > 24 August wherein he advised, “The committees of deliberative
> > bodies also are allowed by Roberts to create sub-committees
> > "which, however, report to the committee, and never to the assembly [,
> > and] must consist of members of the committee,”.  Thus this becomes
> > the Liaison Subcommittee (LSC).
> >
> > -          Clarified references to the OpenCSA MS Steering
> > Committee (StC).
> >
> > -          Clarified that the StC “must” have one of its members on
> > the LSC, rather than “should”.
> >
> > -          Clarified that referenced TCs are TCs affiliated to the
> > OpenCSA MS.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please let me know if anyone has questions about the edits made in the
> > attached revised charter.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Keep up the good work.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Patrick Gannon
> > President & CEO
> > OASIS
> > +1.978.667.5115 x201  - office
> > +1.978.761.3546       - mobile
> > Skype: pgannon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Graham Barber [mailto:graham_barber@uk.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:24 PM
> > To: sca-assembly@lists.oasis-open.org; sca-bindings@lists.oasis-
> > open.org; sca-policy@lists.oasis-open.org; sca-bpel@lists.oasis-
> > open.org; sca-j@lists.oasis-open.org; sca-c-cpp@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Cc: opencsa-ms@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: [opencsa-ms] Inter-SCA TC Liaison Committee Charter - FINAL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear SCA Technical Committees
> >
> > The OpenCSA Steering Committee (SC) has approved the charter of an
> > Inter-SCA TC Liaison Committee (LC) as the official forum for
> > discussion of common issues that cross SCA TC boundaries. The full
> > text of the charter is below. On behalf of the Steering Committee, can
> > I request that each SCA TC nominates at least one representative to
> > serve on the LC by next Friday, October 26th. The SC will also appoint
> > a representative by that date and he will convene the inaugural
> > meeting as soon as practical. Please send your nominated name(s) to
> > the <opencsa-ms> mailing list.
> >
> > Graham J Barber,
> >
> > OASIS OpenCSA Steering Committee Secretary & Vice-Chair Program
> > Director, SOA Partnerships,
> >      Graham_Barber@uk.ibm.com
> >      Graham Barber@IBMGB
> > Phone:
> > Internal:                                245702,  External: +44 (0)
> > 1962 815702
> > Secretary (Yulia):          247672,                    +44 (0)1962
> > 817672
> > Cellphone (Worldwide):                                    +44 (0)
> > 7880 734005
> > ----- Forwarded by Graham Barber/UK/IBM on 19/10/2007 18:11 -----
> >
> > Jeff Mischkinsky <jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com>
> >
> > 19/10/2007 17:56
> >
> > To
> >
> > opencsa-ms@lists.oasis-open.org
> >
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> >
> > [opencsa-ms] Inter-SCA TC Liaison Committee Charter - FINAL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > OpenCSA Inter-SCA TC Liaison Committee (LC) 2007-19-2007
> >
> > The OpenCSA Inter-SCA TC Liaison Committee is chartered to provide an
> > official forum for the discussion by the TCs of common issues that
> > cross SCA TC boundaries. Its membership shall consist of
> > representatives from each SCA TC (at least one from each TC), OpenCSA
> > Steering Committee members, and possibly other invited TC members.
> > The OpenCSA SC shall appoint the members for one-year renewable terms.
> > Each SCA TC shall recommend to the SC at least one member to represent
> > itself on the LC.
> >
> > The actual composition and number is flexible in order to accommodate
> > changing needs and requirements. However each SCA TC should have at
> > least one TC member to represent its interests and to assure reliable
> > communications. It is also contemplated that the SC should also have
> > at least one of its members serving to ensure a reliable communication
> > channel between the SC and the Committee.
> >
> > All of the Committee's work shall be visible to the public (i.e. all
> > documents, email archives, agenda, discussions, shall be publicly
> > viewable). The Committee, as its first order of business shall elect a
> > Chair. In the absence of such an elected Chair the SC member shall
> > serve as a pro tem chair until such time as the Committee can elect
> > one. LC meetings, (teleconference and/or face to face) shall be posted
> > in advance. The meetings shall be open to other MS and TC members as
> > observers. Observers may participate in meetings at the discretion of
> > the chair. Any eligible OASIS member may subscribe to the LC mail list
> > and post to it. The LC may use whatever tools seem appropriate to
> > organizing its work, provided they meet the above criteria of public
> > visibility and are approved by OASIS.
> >
> > The purpose of the LC is to provide a forum for the discussion of
> > common issues that cut across the SCA TCs. The LC is not a decision
> > making body in the sense that is only empowered to make
> > recommendations to the appropriate TCs or SC. All of its
> > recommendations are non-binding and advisory. The LC must not
> > disenfranchise the role and responsibilities of the TCs in technical
> > discussions.
> >
> > The LC will not discuss issues which are the sole purview of any
> > single TC. The LC will only work on issues passed to it by requests
> > made to it by the SC or other TCs with the view towards making timely
> > recommendations. The LC may re-discuss an issue should a
> > recommendation be rejected by one or more TCs.
> >
> > The kinds of activities within its scope are:
> >    the discussion of common process issues,
> >    the tracking (not resolution of) of cross TC technical issues to
> > make sure the designated TC liaisons are aware of them and that the
> > relevant TCs take appropriate action,
> >    the making recommendations to the SC of other actions it might take
> > to improve coordination of the work of the OpenCSA TCs.
> >
> >     Contemplated areas where liaison will almost certainly be required
> > are exemplified by start-up issues (naming, versioning, logistics),
> > test suite issues that cross TCs, logistics (e.g.
> > scheduling face-to-face meetings), and close-down issues (scheduling,
> > exit criteria, etc.)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unless stated otherwise above:
> > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with
> > number 741598.
> > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire
> > PO6 3AU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <OpenCSA InterTC-Subcommittee-Charter-20071022.doc>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> --
> Jeff Mischkinsky
> 	jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com
> Director, Oracle Fusion Middleware and Web Services Standards	+1(650)
> 506-1975
> Consulting Member Technical Staff           			500 Oracle
> Parkway, M/
> S 4OP9
> Oracle
Redwood Shores,
> CA 94065
> 
> 
> 
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