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Subject: Re: [opendocument-users] simple OO.org document goes awry in MS Office 2007 w/SP2 - what went wrong?

I understand Rob in the following way:

"If there is an interop problem, let's solve it. Identify the root cause, 
fix it. If the root cause is ambiguity in the ODF standard, it should get 
fixed in the standard using the normal processes. But interop wins over 
standard amendments."

And I fully support that. I would call it the difference between a living 
standard or an authority driven standstill. If the applications can be fixed 
by using the same interpretation of the standard, if this common 
understanding is published so that other implementors can fix the same issue 
by using the same interpretation, we have solved a poblem by cooperating.

This is the way it should be. This is the way we worked at the Plugfest. 
It's the implementors that drive the standard. Not the theoretical experts 
IMHO. And that is why I value implementors higher.

Which brings us back to the original question that started the discussion - 
in this case John has problems using an OOo document with MS Office 2007 

First he should inform the vendors and they should talk to the TC, OIC if 
needed. Becauae effectively the implementors will have to fix their 
products. John can "only" assist by testing, he *couldA help patching OOo if 
needed as it is Open Source, but he would not gain much from talking to the 

Jan H Wildeboer          |
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Geschaeftsfuehrer: Brendan Lane,Charlie Peters,Michael Cunningham,
Charles Cachera

----- Original Message -----
From: marbux <marbux@gmail.com>
To: robert_weir@us.ibm.com <robert_weir@us.ibm.com>
Cc: opendocument-users@lists.oasis-open.org 
Sent: Tue Jun 16 22:04:41 2009
Subject: Re: [opendocument-users] simple OO.org document goes awry in MS 
Office 2007 w/SP2 - what went wrong?

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM, <robert_weir@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> marbux <marbux@gmail.com> wrote on 06/16/2009 01:16:31 PM:
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 12:37 AM, <robert_weir@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> So I understand it, are you saying that every bug report I or anyone
>> else sends you on an interop failure between Lotus Symphony and other
>> ODF implementations will result in you promptly submitting a TC
>> proposal to fix the relevant spec(s) with as many mandatory interop
>> requirements as are needed to remove the relevant ambiguity if the
>> failure is due to an ambiguity or other flaw in the spec, Rob? And
>> that you'll shepherd that proposal through the TC and implement the
>> fix?
> If you find an interop bug, then you can certainly submit a defect report
> online at the support forums at http://symphony.lotus.com
> Of course, those with a support contract will get a more rapid response.
> But if you write up a defect report, preferably with an example file, then
> it will certainly be looked at.

That doesn't answer what I asked, Rob. Take another swing at it, please?

> As for the ODF Plugfest, we tested a number of multi-vendor interop
> scenarios, found a few bugs, but almost all of them were application
> errors.  I still need to write up the details on the wiki (we were having
> network connectivity problems), but all the issues we found were traced to
> their causes and the only ones that I noticed that were due to issues in
> the standard were issues that we already knew about and have already fixed
> in ODF 1.2.

Given the grossly under-specified state of the specs in regard to
interoperability requirements, including the latest ODF 1.2 draft, I
find that a rather incredible statement, Rob.

> In any case, you should not expect the ODF TC to take raw customer interop
> bug reports any more than you would expect the FCC to answer a call from a
> consumer with a broken radio.  You need to talk to your vendor first.

You're talking past what I wrote on the subject, Rob, rather than
addressing its merits. I expect that from politicians and public
relations flacks but not from the co-chair of the ODF TC. Also, I
happen to know that the FCC actively solicits consumer reports of
radios that cause signal interference, which roughly equates to ODF
interoperability failures. Interference breaks the interoperability of
the assigned radio spectrum frequencies. So I don't think your
metaphor helps your position at all.

Best regards,


Universal Interoperability Council

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