Re: [regrep] Describing ebXML Reg/Rep - observations from Santa Fe

[Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>]

FWIW (as surveys go),

"Large firms hold off Web services because of security fears)
Wednesday, 29 January 2003
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7490

Joe

Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> 
> Regarding adoption:  I also believe part of the issue is the current
> lack of adoption of Web services, due to issues such as security.  A
> *loose* analogy might be that when the travel industry is suffering, the
> luggage makers suffer.
> 
> I predict that with initiatives such as WS-Security and the new W3C Web
> Services Choreography Working Group underway, we will see in the coming
> years a spike in the adoption and use of Web services, which will lead
> to a increase in usage of registries not only for the storage and
> maintenance of Web service information, but also the artifacts (e.g.
> schemas) that describe/validate the Web service payload information, as
> well as the entities (CPP/A) that support the collaboration.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Matthew MacKenzie wrote:
> >
> > Max,
> >
> > You make some great points, but I think that a lot of our problem is a
> > general lack of people willing to roll up their sleeves and get all of
> > the work done.  Compare this group's roll call to UDDI's, and remember
> > that UDDI's scope is much more limited than ours.  UDDI has big
> > marketing bucks behind it (read: MSFT & IBM), supplying a very good
> > reason for people to step up and get it done.
> >
> > What did we learn from Betamax and VHS?  Beta was better technically,
> > but VHS machines are what you are replacing with DVD players today.  We
> > need to spend some serious time on evangelizing regrep to the developer
> > and vendor community, IMHO.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > On Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003, at 18:47 America/Vancouver, Max Voskob
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello dear RegRep TC!
> > >
> > > Sorry for annoying you with my opinions, but here I just can't stay
> > > silent
> > > :)
> > >
> > > First of all, I support Erik in his observations.
> > > Second, why do u want everyone to be smart? I don't want to be smart -
> > > I
> > > want things around me to be smart, easy to operate and understand.
> > > Confused
> > > where I'm coming from? Read this book
> > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465067107/
> > > qid=1043893177/sr=1
> > > -1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5762810-0332102?v=glance&s=books
> > >
> > > To be closer to the point, I have to say that if one wants his
> > > creation to
> > > be used (adopted?) then one has to make it simple to use and
> > > understand.
> > > About a year ago I had an assignment to choose a Registry/Repository
> > > for one
> > > of our clients. That ultimately lead me to this TC. But think how an
> > > average
> > > busy IT specialist makes his research! I see a name "XML Registry". Do
> > > u
> > > expect me to go thru a 300 page manual to understand what it is and if
> > > it
> > > can work with any other object types? The average fellow would hardly
> > > move
> > > further than the executive summary.
> > >
> > > We had a very useful feedback from an outsider. Don't make him feel
> > > ashamed
> > > that he didn't read the spec - he doesn't have to!
> > >
> > > If I can't set up time for my alarm clock it's not my fault. It is a
> > > designers fault. They didn't make it easy to operate. Same thing
> > > applies
> > > here.
> > >
> > > If someone says that your creation is hard to use/understand then I'd
> > > think
> > > twice and seek another opinion to make sure that that someone is an
> > > exception, not a rule, unless I don't care.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Max Voskob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> > > To: "Still Erik R" <erik.r.still@boeing.com>
> > > Cc: "OASIS regrep" <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [regrep] Describing ebXML Reg/Rep - observations from
> > > Santa Fe
> > >
> > >
> > >> Erik,
> > >>
> > >> Thank you for your feedback (you must be a colleague of Kathyrn's).
> > >> Some comments:
> > >>
> > >> #1 below:
> > >> <Excerpt>
> > >> It seemed helpful to clarify that an ebXML Registry does not
> > >> necessarily
> > >> use XML in its implementation, and that its contents do not need to be
> > >> restricted to XML artifacts.
> > >> </Excerpt>
> > >>
> > >>> From the RIM spec:
> > >>
> > >> "The registry provides a stable store where information submitted by a
> > >> Submitting Organization is made persistent. Such information is used
> > >> to
> > >> facilitate ebXML-based Business to Business (B2B) partnerships and
> > >> transactions. Submitted content may be XML schema and documents,
> > >> process
> > >> descriptions, ebXML Core Components, context descriptions, UML models,
> > >> information about parties and even software components."
> > >>
> > >> This is made quite clear in the spec - are you suggesting then that we
> > >> emphasize it whenever we present the Registry specification in
> > >> presentations?  If this was not emphasized at the conference, I can
> > >> definitely understand as the *main focus* of the Registry architecture
> > >> is, after all, XML.
> > >>
> > >> #2 below:
> > >> <Excerpt>
> > >> 2.  Some people seemed to have the impression that the RIM was
> > >> essentially a software package that could be simply installed.  It
> > >> seems
> > >> important to be clear that the RIM is a model and a standard - a level
> > >> of abstraction above any actual implementation of the standard.
> > >> </Excerpt>
> > >>
> > >> I don't doubt even for a picosecond your impression of the attendees'
> > >> reaction, but it does surprise me given that the "M" in "RIM" should
> > >> really speak for itself (i.e. it is a "M"odel).  Would you be willing
> > >> to
> > >> elaborate as to why you feel that people had this very incorrect
> > >> impression?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Joe
> > >>
> > >> "Still, Erik R" wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Having attended the Open Metadata Registries conference in Santa Fe,
> > >>> I
> > > have some observations regarding
> > >>> the presentation and description of ebXML Reg/Rep and RIM that might
> > > have some bearing on the understanding
> > >>> and acceptance of these standards and specifications among the
> > >>> broader
> > > metadata community:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1.  For the people not familiar with an ebXML Registry, there seemed
> > >>> to
> > > be some confusion about the relationship
> > >>> between XML and the Registry.  It seemed helpful to clarify that an
> > > ebXML Registry does not necessarily
> > >>> use XML in its implementation, and that its contents do not need to
> > >>> be
> > > restricted to XML artifacts.  The ebXML
> > >>> label suggests things about the Registry that are not true, and may
> > > cause some people to dismiss an ebXML
> > >>> Registry because they are "interested in metadata, but not XML".  In
> > > presenting the ebXML Registry spec,
> > >>> it is important to explain what ebXML is, and it's relation to the
> > >>> spec.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2.  Some people seemed to have the impression that the RIM was
> > > essentially a software package that
> > >>> could be simply installed.  It seems important to be clear that the
> > >>> RIM
> > > is a model and a standard - a level of
> > >>> abstraction above any actual implementation of the standard.
> > >>>
> > >>> I expect that it is not necessary to reiterate such points within
> > >>> this
> > > community.  But when presenting the
> > >>> ebXML Reg/Rep to others, making these issues clear up front will go a
> > > long way in reducing confusion and
> > >>> gaining understanding and acceptance.
> > >>>
> > >>>         - Erik
> > >>>
> > >>> Erik Still
> > >>> erik.r.still@boeing.com
> > >>> CENTRAL Registry
> > >>> Boeing Library Services
> > >>>
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
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