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Subject: Re: [regrep] Alignment with Web Services Security


Farrukh,

I was just making the point that people do not have to use WSS to
do this - they can do it already.

However - obviously - for A2A applications people may want a
WS* mechanism.

DW.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Farrukh Najmi" <Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM>
To: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
Cc: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>;
<regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [regrep] Alignment with Web Services Security


> David RR Webber wrote:
>
> >Farrukh,
> >
> >Surely if people are looking to sign content - the ebMS interface
> >already provides all that functionality - no need to re-invent the
> >wheel here.
> >
> >
> Hi David,
>
> ebRR specs have requires signing content (and metadata) since 1.0.
> This feature has to be supported on ebMS and SOAP which is also
> a long standing requirement.
>
> We are talking about replacing our wheels after 60,000 miles with
> a brand of tires that is likely to be achieving a monopoly in the tire
> market and if we choose different tires then we will not be able
> to race with the other cars ;-)
>
> >DW.
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Farrukh Najmi" <Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM>
> >To: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> >Cc: <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:20 AM
> >Subject: Re: [regrep] Alignment with Web Services Security
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Thanks Farrukh. Could you please elaborate more concretely as to how
> >>>this would affect any use of WSS with our Registry specs? On the
surface
> >>>I'm not seeing the connection...
> >>>
> >>>IOW, how would wsu:Id be used within a WSS Security SOAP header to
refer
> >>>to an entity that is registered within an ebXML Registry? I see it
> >>>referring to security tokens - are you leaving open the possibility
that
> >>>the Registry could serve as a certificate store, perhaps?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Thanks Joe. You are correct that in many cases the use of wsu:Id would
> >>be limited
> >>to referencing security tokens and there is no concern in such cases
> >>since registry
> >>objects and their ids are not involved.
> >>
> >>But as I understand things, that is not all that is possible....
> >>
> >>The "Web Services Security: SOAP Message Security 1.0" spec at line 375
> >>states:
> >>
> >>"There are many situations where elements within SOAP messages need to
> >>be referenced. For example, when signing a SOAP message, selected
> >>elements are included in the scope of the signature."
> >>
> >>I am assuming that if we specify which elements in our soap body are
> >>signed using their id then
> >>we would run into this problem. There may be other situations that we
> >>cannot see right now
> >>as well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Joe
> >>>
> >>>Farrukh Najmi wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Here is some additional information on wsu:Id which may or may not
> >>>>>change our perspective:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- The wsu:Id attribute is defined so that recipients don't have to
> >>>>>understand the full schema of the message for processing of the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >security
> >
> >
> >>>>>elements;
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- The wsu:Id attribute provides a well-known attribute for specifying
> >>>>>the *local ID* of an element - that is, the ID of an element within
an
> >>>>>XML document;
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- The WSS SOAP Message Security specification does not specify how
this
> >>>>>attribute will be used, and "it is expected that other specifications
> >>>>>MAY add additional semantics (or restrictions) for their usage of
this
> >>>>>attribute."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- There are multiple places in the WSS SOAP Message Security spec in
> >>>>>which the wsu:Id attribute is defined as a "string label" (ex: line
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >528)
> >
> >
> >>>>>rather than as type xsd:ID - not sure if a URI would be considered a
> >>>>>"string label";
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>The bottom line is the definition:
> >>>>
> >>>><xsd:attribute name="Id" type="xsd:ID">
> >>>>
> >>>>within http://www.docs.oasis-open.org/wss/2004/01/oasis-200401-
> >>>>wss-wssecurity-utility-1.0.xsd
> >>>>
> >>>>which makes it quite unusable for us.
> >>>>
> >>>>A simple fix would be to change above to:
> >>>>
> >>>><xsd:attribute name="Id" type="xsd:string">
> >>>>
> >>>>That would addres my main concern with this spec.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Joe
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Farrukh Najmi wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Team,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The Web Services Security 1.0 specs are in OASIS member review for
> >>>>>>becoming an OASIS standard
> >>>>>>(see announcement below from earlier this month).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I would like to propose that we consider the issue of whether we
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >should
> >
> >
> >>>>>>align V3 with the WSS
> >>>>>>specs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I have read the specs and have found one small but significant issue
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >for
> >
> >
> >>>>>>its use by us.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Section 4 of the The " Web Services Security: SOAP Message Security
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >1.0"
> >
> >
> >>>>>>spec
> >>>>>>specifies wsu:Id as an xsd:ID type. This prevents the possibility of
> >>>>>>using URI or UUID as an id.
> >>>>>>This is an unfortunate restriction because many systems (including
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >ebXML
> >
> >
> >>>>>>Registry) use urn:uuid based ids and also other
> >>>>>>URNs as ids.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Recall that we ran into this exact situation in ebXML Registry specs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >and
> >
> >
> >>>>>>decided to change the type of our id attribute
> >>>>>>to string from xsd:ID.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>This issue need to be addressed IMO by the WSS TC in order for us to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >use
> >
> >
> >>>>>>the WSS specs.
> >>>>>>If it were addressed then I would be in favour of aliging with this
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >spec
> >
> >
> >>>>>>for ebXML Registry version 3.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thoughts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>>Farrukh
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-------- Original Message --------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Subject:        [OASIS members] WSS specification submitted for
OASIS
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >Standard
> >
> >
> >>>>>>Date:   Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:31:59 -0500
> >>>>>>From:   Karl F. Best <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
> >>>>>>Reply-To:       karl.best@oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>Organization:   OASIS
> >>>>>>To:     members@lists.oasis-open.org,
tc-announce@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>OASIS members:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The OASIS Web Services Security TC (WSS TC) has submitted the Web
> >>>>>>Services Security v1.0 specification, which is an approved Committee
> >>>>>>Draft, for review and consideration for approval by OASIS members to
> >>>>>>become an OASIS Standard. The TC's submission is attached below.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>In accordance with the OASIS Technical Process, the specification
has
> >>>>>>already gone through a 30 day public review period. OASIS members
now
> >>>>>>have 15 days to familiarize themselves with the submission. By the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >16th
> >
> >
> >>>>>>of the month I will send out a Call For Vote to the voting
> >>>>>>representative of each OASIS member organization, who will have
until
> >>>>>>the end of the month to cast their ballots on whether this Committee
> >>>>>>Draft should be approved as an OASIS Standard. OASIS members should
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >give
> >
> >
> >>>>>>their input on this question to the voting reps of their respective
> >>>>>>organizations.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The normative TC Process for approval of Committee Drafts as OASIS
> >>>>>>Standards is found at
> >>>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php#standard
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Please note that statements related to the IPR of this specification
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >are
> >
> >
> >>>>>>posted at http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/wss/ipr.php
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-Karl
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>=================================================================
> >>>>>>Karl F. Best
> >>>>>>Vice President, OASIS
> >>>>>>office +1 978.667.5115 x206 mobile +1 978.761.1648
> >>>>>>karl.best@oasis-open.org http://www.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the
roster
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >of the OASIS TC), go to
>
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgroup
.php.
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >of the OASIS TC), go to
>
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgroup
.php.
> >
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>Farrukh
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster
of
> >>>
> >>>
> >the OASIS TC), go to
>
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgroup
.php.
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-- 
> >>Regards,
> >>Farrukh
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of
> >>
> >>
> >the OASIS TC), go to
>
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgroup
.php.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of
the OASIS TC), go to
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgroup.php.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -- 
> Regards,
> Farrukh
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of
the OASIS TC), go to
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgroup.php.
>
>



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