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Subject: Re: [sca-bindings] Re: [sca-assembly] [ISSUE 33] Updated Proposalfor Issue 33


Mike,

 >I think I agree that you can't really mix
 > callbacks and this new "long running" async style of service.

Why not? I think it should be possible. asyncInvocation is just a 
req-res where the response is sent over a separate connection. This is 
independent of callbacks. Yes, it is possible to do a asyncInvocation 
using callbacks and one-way operations. But the critical difference here 
is that the asyncInvocation consists of only one reply/response.

-Anish
--


Mike Edwards wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Comments inline...
> 
> Yours,  Mike.
> 
> Strategist - Emerging Technologies, SCA & SDO.
> Co Chair OASIS SCA Assembly TC.
> IBM Hursley Park, Mail Point 146, Winchester, SO21 2JN, Great Britain.
> Phone & FAX: +44-1962-818014    Mobile: +44-7802-467431  
> Email:  mike_edwards@uk.ibm.com
> 
> 
> From: 	Simon Holdsworth/UK/IBM@IBMGB
> To: 	sca-assembly@lists.oasis-open.org
> Date: 	19/11/2008 11:09
> Subject: 	Re: [sca-assembly] [ISSUE 33] Updated Proposal for Issue 33
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> My initial reaction to this is that it conflicts with the existing 
> conversational support, although I see that there is a new issue to 
> remove that support from the spec.  If that doesn't get accepted, are 
> you comfortable with the spec including all of callbacks, conversations 
> and async invocations?
> 
> *<mje> *
> *I'm not sure what the conflict is, although as you say, this may be a 
> moot point.  However, I don't view this "long running" support as being 
> much different to callbacks.  I think I agree that you can't really mix 
> callbacks and this new "long running" async style of service.  Mixing 
> with conversational seems no more complex than mixing conversations with 
> callbacks (yes, there is complexity there, I agree).*
> *</mje>*
> 
> The text says: "the binding must be able to treat the transmission of 
> the request message separately from the transmission of the response 
> message, with an arbitrarily large time interval between the two 
> transmissions.".  Does that leave space for an implementation to include 
> timeouts, or to hold correlation information non-persistently?  Even for 
> HTTP some amount of asynchonous invocation is possible, at least from 
> the point of view of the interacting components, although the connection 
> would be lost if either party terminates or some comms error occurs.
> *<mje>*
> *Not sure I follow your point about HTTP providing "some amount of 
> asynchronous invocation" unless you mean that HTTP can wait for a 
> limited time for a response - like a small number of minutes.  What I am 
> trying to say is that if a service is marked as "long running" then the 
> binding CANNOT assume that a "small number of minutes" is going to cut 
> it.  The proposal says that the binding MUST assume that the response 
> will be a separate transmission at some arbitrarily later time*
> *</mje>*
> 
> I'd note that for the web services example given, the non-anonymous 
> response URI allows a client of a service to act asynchronously, but it 
> does not mean that the service itself will dispatch the request on its 
> target component and handle the response asynchronously.
> *<mje>*
> *Not quite sure what point you're making here.  *
> 
> *As far as the target component is concerned, the whole point of the 
> marking of the interface is that it indicates that the service 
> operations are going to be "long running" implying "asynchronous".  For 
> the service to be able to do this, the implementation type MUST be able 
> to support such a concept - if it can't then tough, you can't implement 
> the service in that language.  HOW it is done is up to the 
> implementation language specs.  In the examples for Java that are in one 
> of the documents that I sent out, there are examples of two alternatives 
> - one based on standard Java method calls with responses provided via 
> return values in the normal way, the other based on using a callback 
> reference to dispatch the response message.  Frankly, the first of these 
> depends on the calling thread blocking and waiting at some point which 
> is pretty fragile and would not be my choice in most cases.  The second 
> way allows for the callback to be stored into a database and retrieved 
> at some later point whenever the asynchronous activities complete - much 
> more likely to be robust.  *
> 
> *Whether other languages can support some style(s) equivalent to these 
> is up to the relevant implementation TCs to decide.*
> *</mje>*
> 
> Regards, Simon
> 
> Simon Holdsworth
> STSM, SCA Bindings Architect; Master Inventor; OASIS SCA Bindings TC Chair
> MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN, UK
> Tel +44-1962-815059 (Internal 245059) Fax +44-1962-816898
> Internet - Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com
> 
> *Mike Edwards/UK/IBM@IBMGB*
> 
> 19/11/2008 10:51
> 
> 	
> To
> 	"OASIS Assembly" <sca-assembly@lists.oasis-open.org>
> cc
> 	
> Subject
> 	[sca-assembly] [ISSUE 33] Updated Proposal for Issue 33
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Here is an updated version of the proposal for Issue 33 following the 
> discussion on the call yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the version that I am sending to the other TCs.
> 
> Note that the current Assembly specification does not define the 
> requirements that bidirectional interfaces place on bindings, so the 
> text in this proposal is the first place that this is defined for the 
> Assembly specification.
> 
> 
> Yours,  Mike.
> 
> Strategist - Emerging Technologies, SCA & SDO.
> Co Chair OASIS SCA Assembly TC.
> IBM Hursley Park, Mail Point 146, Winchester, SO21 2JN, Great Britain.
> Phone & FAX: +44-1962-818014    Mobile: +44-7802-467431  
> Email:  mike_edwards@uk.ibm.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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> 
> 
> [attachment "2008-11-12 - SCA-Assembly Issue 33 - Proposal_2.doc" 
> deleted by Mike Edwards/UK/IBM] [attachment "2008-11-12 - SCA-Assembly 
> Issue 33 - Java Mapping_2.doc" deleted by Mike Edwards/UK/IBM] 
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> /
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> /Unless stated otherwise above:
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> 


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