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Subject: Re: [sca-assembly] Issue 116: Interface compatibility refers to input/outputtypes which is ambiguous when using WSDL 1.1


See comments inline.

   Simon

Anish Karmarkar wrote:
> Two comments inlined below.
> 
> -Anish
> -- 
> 
> Simon Nash wrote:
>> Mike Edwards wrote:
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> Comments inline
>>>
>>> Yours,  Mike.
>>>
>>> Strategist - Emerging Technologies, SCA & SDO.
>>> Co Chair OASIS SCA Assembly TC.
>>> IBM Hursley Park, Mail Point 146, Winchester, SO21 2JN, Great Britain.
>>> Phone & FAX: +44-1962-818014    Mobile: +44-7802-467431  Email:  
>>> mike_edwards@uk.ibm.com
>>>
>>> Simon Nash <oasis@cjnash.com> wrote on 02/03/2009 10:24:04:
>>>
>>>  > [image removed]
>>> <snip>
>>>  > > Outline --
>>>  > > 1) Use the WSDL 1.1 interface as the canonical interface 
>>> language and
>>>  > > require that "sameness" be determined after the interfaces are 
>>> mapped to
>>>  > > WSDL 1.1.
>>>  >  >
>>>  > I don't think this is the right solution.  We don't require (and 
>>> shouldn't
>>>  > require) that all SCA interfaces must be mappable to WSDL.  The 
>>> requirement
>>>  > should be that the SCA interface types of the source and target 
>>> interface
>>>  > define mappings that can be applied to the target interface to 
>>> produce
>>>  > a representation of the target interface in the source interface 
>>> language.
>>>  >
>>>
>>> I disagree.  I think that for remotable interfaces, it is right and 
>>> reasonable
>>> to require that all interface types map to WSDL.  If this is not 
>>> done, then you
>>> have a difficult n x n mapping table to construct - and worse, I 
>>> think it will
>>> be hard to know whether any particular binding can be used for that 
>>> remotable
>>> interface.
>>>
>>> The requirement for mapping to WSDL allows a much simpler approach 
>>> both to
>>> comparison of interfaces and also to the application of bindings.
>>>
>>> For local interfaces, WSDL mapping should not be a requirement, but 
>>> there,
>>> the restrictions on mapping of interfaces will need to be spelled out.
>>>
>> The proposed text is for the wiring section.  Wiring applies to local
>> interfaces as well as remotable interfaces.  Any rules for wiring need
>> to apply to both local and remotable interfaces.  The text proposed
>> by Anish does not meet this requirement.
>>
> 
> Although the proposed text is for the wiring section. It should not be. 
> I did not include that in my proposal as I knew that either you or I 
> would be filing a separate issue for that (and you already have).
> 
> Mixing of interfaces applies not just to wires but also to promotions, 
> overriding interfaces specified in componentTypes (but configuring 
> components).
> 
I agree, and this comment would apply for all these cases as well,
as there's no  guarantee that the interfaces in question would be
mappable to WSDL.

>> The question about whether all remotable interfaces are required to be
>> mappable to WSDL is a separate issue.  Currently, there is nothing in
>> the Assembly specification saying this and there is no open issue
>> concerning this.  A number of interface specifications are owned by
>> other TCs and IMO the Assembly specification should not impose this as
>> a requirement on all of those other TCs and the interface specifications
>> that they create.  Each interface specification should state whether or
>> not its remotable interfaces MUST be mappable to WSDL.  Having these
>> other specs require this and define the mapping to WSDL would be the
>> normal case.  For example, I think this mapping should be required and
>> defined for remotable Java interfaces.
>>
>> I believe the alternative text that I have proposed is sufficient to
>> define wiring rules without the need to mention WSDL.  I am not sure
>> what the difficulty is with the application of bindings.  Please can
>> you give more details of this.
>>
>> Requiring the compatibility test to be performed on mapped WSDL
>> doesn't work for some cases.  Consider the following examples:
>> 1. A service uses interface.wsdl and a reference uses interface.java.
>>    In this case the service interface needs to be mapped from
>>    WSDL to Java and the compatibility test needs to be applied to
>>    the reference's Java interface and the WSDL->Java mapping of the
>>    service's interface.  It would not be valid to map the reference's
>>    interface from Java to WSDL using the Java->WSDL mapping and apply
>>    the compatibility test to this mapped interface and the service's
>>    interface, because the WSDL that will be used on the wire is the
>>    service's WSDL and not the generated Java->WSDL mapping of the
>>    reference.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand this.
> If it is compatible, how does it matter whether it was generated or not?
> 
> Not an assembly issue, but does JAX-WS take care of around tripping?
> Also, since JAX-WS defines annotations for mapping, wouldn't it be 
> always better to go from Java->WSDL?
> 
These mappings are not round-trippable, and always going from Java->WSDL
could produce either false positives or false negatives.  I posted one
example in my other recent email.  This is a tricky area and requires
careful thought.

   Simon

> 
>> 2. A service uses interface.java and a reference uses interface.java.
>>    The compatibility test needs to be applied directly to these Java
>>    interfaces.  It would not be valid to to map them both to WSDL
>>    and apply the compatibility test to the generated WSDL, because
>>    of the false positives that could occur if different Java types
>>    map to the same WSDL type.
>>
>>   Simon
>>
>>> <snip>
>>>  >
>>>  >    Simon
>>>  >
>>>  > > -Anish
>>>  > > --
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> /
>>> /
>>>
>>> /Unless stated otherwise above:
>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with 
>>> number 741598.
>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire 
>>> PO6 3AU/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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