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- DRAFT -
OASIS SCA-Assembly TC
03 NOV 2009
Present
| Mark Combellack |
Avaya, Inc. |
Group Member |
| Dale Moberg |
Axway Software* |
Group Member |
| Robert Freund |
Hitachi, Ltd. |
Group Member |
| Eric Wells |
Hitachi, Ltd. |
Group Member |
| Bryan Aupperle |
IBM |
Group Member |
| David Booz |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Graham Charters |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Mike Edwards |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Simon Holdsworth |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Diane Jordan |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Mike Kaiser |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Dieter Koenig |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Peter Niblett |
IBM |
Group Member |
| Jim Marino |
Individual |
Group Member |
| Jeff Estefan |
Jet Propulsion Laboratory:* |
Group Member |
| Martin Chapman |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Khanderao Kand |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Anish Karmarkar |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Rich Levinson |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Ashok Malhotra |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Jeff Mischkinsky |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Gilbert Pilz |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Clemens Utschig - Utschig |
Oracle Corporation |
Group Member |
| Sanjay Patil |
SAP AG* |
Group Member |
| Plamen Pavlov |
SAP AG* |
Group Member |
| Sabin Ielceanu |
TIBCO Software Inc. |
Group Member |
| Eric Johnson |
TIBCO Software Inc. |
Group Member |
| Danny van der Rijn |
TIBCO Software Inc. |
Group Member |
| Scott Vorthmann |
TIBCO Software Inc. |
Group Member |
Chairs
| Martin Chapman |
|
|
| Mike Edwards |
|
|
Scribe
Agenda:
1. Introductions
Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing
2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34886/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202009-10-27.html 3. Action Items
4. TC Administrivia
a) 1st Public Review of the Assembly Model spec ended June 23
Public comments list:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly-comment/ b). 1st Public Review of Test Assertions and TestCases ended October 17
c) Confirmation of dates for Assembly F2F Meeting
December 1/2/3
Location: TIBCO, Bay Area, San Francisco.
0.5 day conclusion of SCA Assembly 1.1 specification
2.5 days Event Processing
5. New Issues (Spec)
ASSEMBLY-187: Unmarked MUST in section 10.8
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-187 Proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00071.html 6. Spec Existing Issues with Proposals
ASSEMBLY 183: Conformance statement for binding.sca
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-183 Proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00061.html ASSEMBLY-132: Microsoft technical comment about the SCA Assembly Model specification #1
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-132 Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200911/msg00000.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00047.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00034.html ASSEMBLY-149: Few comments from Siemens
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-149 Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00034.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00033.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00032.html 7. New Issues (Test)
ASSEMBLY 184: TestCase client - need to add capability for Test Bridge to check the actual error returned by the runtime.
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-184 ASSEMBLY 185: Artfacts for Testcases that have statically checkable errors must be placed into separate Contributions
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-185 ASSEMBLY 186: ASM_5023 - incorrect interfaces and referencename in TestComposite11.composite
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-186 7. Test Suite Open Issues
ASSEMBLY 170: Errors in Artifacts for a set of testcases in ASM_120xx range
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-170 Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 171: Problems with artifacts for a set of the TestCases for SCA Assembly
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-171 Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 172: ASM-TA-5031 is not adequately tested by any TestCase in the Test Suite
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-172 ASSEMBLY 173: Errors in Test Artifacts for ASM_6022, ASM_5032, ASM_5016
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-173 Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 175: Current Schema for Properties does not support value attribute- [ASM50027]
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-175 Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 159: Align Test Assertion Document with latest Draft Assembly Spec
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-159 8. Existing Issues without proposals
ASSEMBLY 140: Need TAs and testcases for property/@file and property/@many=true
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-140Agenda:
1. resume meeting/roll/agenda
2. F2F planning
3. Discussion.
Continue discussions on Position 3, and start to enumerate the differences.
As a reminder:
Position 1: the current SCA 1.1 model needs tweaking/adding to, to support a pub/sub paradigm.
Position 2: SCA 1.1 use of WSDL has certain assumptions in assemblers/developers heads (and current tooling), which
need re-examining for pub/sub.
Position 3: SCA 1.1 wires and wiring may be too restrictive for pub/sub and need to be relaxed/extended.
Position 4: We agreed that we should talk about whether an assembler looking at SCDL should be able to distinguish
between events and one-way requests.
4. AOB
Minutes
Opening
Roll - quorate with 62% of voting members present
Resolution: Minutes of 2009-10-27 approved w/o
Administrivia
Roll - updated now over 66%
Edwards:
A couple of public review issues now have proposal
...Next face to face in the Bay area (silicon, not silicone valley)
...Meeting in the week of US Thanksgiving... expecting poor attendance and suggest cancellation
Resolution: m:Booz s:Aupperle meeting of 2009-11-24 canceled w/o
New Issues
Aupperle introduces the issue
Resolution: m:Aupperle s:Booz New Issue Assembly-187 opened w/o
<jeff.mischkinsky>
+1 to anish's comment
Action: Edwards to add a test assertion supporting Assembly-187
Existing Issues with Proposals
<Dave Booz>
the pseudo schema should say binding.sca
<anish>
yes, s/binding.ws/binding.sca/
<anish>
the binding.sca is similar but different ;-)
<anish>
actually it is: s/binding.ws/binding.sca/g
proposals linked from the agenda
Karmarkar suggests that the spec ought to be explicit as to features that are optional and which ones are absolutely mandatory
<anish>
eric, the current conformance requirement is: "The implementation MUST support and comply with at least one of the OpenCSA
Member Section adopted implementation types."
Anish, that one line could be deleted.
<anish>
yes, indeed and that is what's sanjay's proposal is. The question is, if we delete that line then do we need to replace it
with things like 'publicly avialable' etc
Anish, not if a "meta spec" exists, perhaps even if embedded in the Assembly spec
<anish>
The Q is do we want a very real iron clad conformance claim for *assembly* or allow all kinds of implementations and remove
the barriers for new impl types that will make the assembly model popular
<anish>
bob, i *think* we are agreeing. The quibble i have is why go through this legal maze to figure this out. Either we make it
easy or have an iron clad criteria
<Bryan Aupperle>
Time check
AOB
<Mike Edwards>
OK, attendance is now correct
<Mike Edwards>
Martin - ru able to be on the call tomorrow?
<Dave Booz>
I'll try to start the telecon
<Mike Edwards>
I'm here now
EricW:
Bob sends appologies (W3C clash) - so I'll be filling in for him
<gilbert.pilz>
just once I'd like to find a hold system that played the Buzzcocks or some such
Opening/Resumption
Additional role - Clemens Jim Sabin Khanderao Peter
Agenda - as posted, no alterations
Face to Face
TIBCO confirmed host for 1 - 3 December
<clemensutschig>
location?
Chairs thank TIBCO for hosting
MikeE:
Need to work on agenda for F2F
...Can Sabin and Scott (regrets) work on agenda and on TIBCO's proposal
Discussion of Proposition 3
N.B. several protagonists are not in attendance
MartinC:
Brings us up to current point in discussion
PeterN:
Again - pub/sub is not the same as event processing
...e.g. Fire alarm is an EVENT but no pub/sub
DaleM:
Clarification - this is one to many - are we restricting to this?
PeterN:
No - include every combination. 1..N N..N, etc
<Peter Niblett>
You might use pub/sub to distribute fire alarm events, but there are occasions where you want to do 1->1 passing of events
DaleM:
Not sure channel and event types cover all we may need to do
MartinC:
We need to define sematics of channels that can then be mapped to implementations
MartinC:
Also don't think mixing wires and channels helps
PeterN:
Didn't mean SCA wires - just some sort of (graphical) representation of how channels connect artifacts
DaleM:
Maybe the distinction between wires and channels could be the end points involved
...but this may not map well onto HTTP and URL's
MikeE:
OSOA spec uses a model similar to bindings that can be mapped to variety of technologies
...but can also use a specific tecnology if required e.g. JMS
EricJ:
Seems to be different approaches...
...start from a blank slate, or
...start with existing and add/extend
...TIBCO has looked at things from the latter and Oracle seems to be the former
MartinC:
Yes. Don't want to get bogged down in haggling over syntax - we should meet in the middle
DaleM:
Can't see how a "wire" can be the same if the end points vary
...channel would need to be a first class object that are independent of wires
MikeE:
Yes that's how OSOA models them
MartinC:
That could be a good distinction -
...Wires cannot exist independent of what they are connected to
...Channels exist independently of any connected artifacts
<Mike Edwards>
Mike: 4 concepts involved with Event Processing, different from service handling:
<Mike Edwards>
1) Channels (a pub/sub mechanism)
<Mike Edwards>
2) Filters (the ability not to receive messages unless of a given namture)
<Mike Edwards>
3) Mathcing rules between Producer and Consumer (different from services)
<Mike Edwards>
4) Mapping of Artifact interfaces to Consumer and Producer
EricJ:
How does mapping of artifacts differ (4)?
MikeE:
e.g. Mapping of 1..n and n..n onto (say) Java differs
Discussion of how mapping could be done and where (in SCA or in implementations) complexity would be
MartinC:
It would be useful to look at Mikes 4 concepts and enumerate differences between wires and channels
AOB
Suggest the four concepts should be on the agenda for next meeting and F2F
MikeE:
(2) and (3) are the most difficult/different from services and existing models
...(2) Filters - concept dosn't really exist for services - no existing model in SCA v1
...(3) Matching Rules - subscribers need to accept anything (events)
...allowed connections are much more lax than service/consumer
General agreement to continue developing/discussing these four concepts
<Mike Edwards>
ok - Eric are you ok capturing the minutes?
Meeting adjourned 9:49AM PST
Schreiber diagnostics output
[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]
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final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed
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edit-delete: Line 2 was deleted
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note that the scribe command is deprecated
command-scribe: Line 3: Bob Freund is recognized
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command-autoroll/oasis: Line 53: Attempting to fetch roll from http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=25351
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citation-detection-scribed: Line 181: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Meeting adjourned 9'
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system: Transformer: SAXON 9.1.0.7
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