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Subject: Raw chat room log of Nov 12
Mark Combellack: 9:00 to 9:15 Welcome Appointment of scribe for day 2 Agenda bashing
9:15 - 10:40 SCA Lifecycle JAVA-65 There is no lifecycle defined for SCA Components No proposal
JAVA-53 what happens if init() throws a runtime exception Outline proposal in Jira Proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200811/msg00004.html
10:40 - 11:00 Break
11:00 - 12:45 General Issues JAVA-20 annotations on parameters Proposals in Jira and http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200806/msg00017.html
JAVA-39 Incorrect example in Java Component Implementation Spec v1.00 - Sec 1.2.4 (Pending proposal from Anish)
JAVA-46 equals() method on ServiceReference and CallableReference Proposal in Jira
JAVA-60 Sharing Java artifacts across contributions Partial proposal outline in Jira
12:45 - 1:45 Lunch
1:45 - 3:40 Access to SCA from non-SCA clients JAVA-1 Accessing SCA Services from non-SCA component code (Pending proposal from Mike Edwards)
3:40 - 4:00 Break
4:00 - 6:00 Spring JAVA-59 SCA Spring C & I specification does not state what happens when a Bean exposed as a service implements mutliple interfaces Proposal in Jira
JAVA-63 SCA Spring C & I specification does not state whether Constructor Injection should be supported No proposal
JAVA-64 SCA Spring C & I specification does not state the purpose of sca:composite element No proposal
JAVA-58 SCA Spring C&I Specification does not have a normative definition of how to calculate the ComponentType of a Spring Application context No proposal
JAVA-92 Spring C&I spec needs to define how effective CT is calculated No proposal
6:00 Adjourn Mark Combellack: Sorry - wrong agenda - that is the old one. The correct one is below: Mark Combellack: 9:00 to 9:15 Welcome Appointment of scribe for day 2 Agenda bashing
9:15 - 10:40 SCA Lifecycle JAVA-65 There is no lifecycle defined for SCA Components No proposal
JAVA-53 what happens if init() throws a runtime exception Outline proposal in Jira Proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200811/msg00004.html
10:40 - 11:00 Break
11:00 - 12:45 General Issues JAVA-20 annotations on parameters Proposals in Jira and http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200806/msg00017.html
JAVA-39 Incorrect example in Java Component Implementation Spec v1.00 - Sec 1.2.4 (Pending proposal from Anish)
JAVA-46 equals() method on ServiceReference and CallableReference Proposal in Jira
JAVA-60 Sharing Java artifacts across contributions Partial proposal outline in Jira
12:45 - 1:45 Lunch
1:45 - 3:40 Scopes JAVA-21 Clarify Request Scope lifetime Proposal in Jira and http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200811/msg00005.html Previous discussions at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200803/msg00034.html
JAVA-30 "Process" Scope Proposal in Jira and at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200807/msg00068.html
3:40 - 4:00 Break
4:00 - 6:00 Spring JAVA-59 SCA Spring C & I specification does not state what happens when a Bean exposed as a service implements mutliple interfaces Proposal in Jira
JAVA-63 SCA Spring C & I specification does not state whether Constructor Injection should be supported No proposal
JAVA-64 SCA Spring C & I specification does not state the purpose of sca:composite element No proposal
JAVA-58 SCA Spring C&I Specification does not have a normative definition of how to calculate the ComponentType of a Spring Application context No proposal
JAVA-92 Spring C&I spec needs to define how effective CT is calculated No proposal
6:00 Adjourn Ashok: Scribe: Ashok Ashok: Mark explains revised agenda ... replaced Java 1 with Java 21 and 30 Ashok: Topic?: Java 55 and Java 53 ... re. lifecycle for components and failure modes Ashok: Anish: Is this not an Assembly issue? Ashok: Mark: Do we need lifecycle model Ashok: Mike: What wd a lifecycle model look like? Ashok: Anish: We need some stages defined not just for Java ... independent of language Ashok: That should have been 65 and 53 Ashok: Mike: One concerm is potential variations in runtimes Ashok: Some are static and some very dynamic Ashok: Martin: We need to know the state ... such as activated ... and what you can do in each state Ashok: Mike explores situation wrt stateless components Ashok: Anish: If I am in destroy method what can I assume? Ashok: Mike: If there is no proposal how do we get one? Ashok: Mike: 3 scopes to worry about. Ashok: Mike: Describe timing of init and destroy methods and whet we can do within them. Ashok: Dave: I want to talk abt when injection occurs Ashok: Mike: We need to describe state of pooled instances Ashok: Dave: Shd act like they came out of constructor brand new Ashok: Mark: Order in which injections occurs Ashok: All properties first then all references Ashok: Mark brings up constructor injection Ashok: Anish: If componets reference each other whose init method get run first Ashok: When init returns the object is ready Ashok: Runtime decides if methods can be run on object i.e. init finished Ashok: Anish: MUST NOT assume other component is ready when you are in your init Ashok: Simon: Cannot guarantee Ashok: Mark: split init into 2 phases ... init and postInit Ashok: Business methods can run before postInit is finished Ashok: Runtime must start new thread to run postInit Mark Combellack lowered your hand Ashok: Simon: call it threadInit Ashok: Martin: call it businessInit Ashok: sca:Run Ashok: Mark: Do we need mirror image for destroy? Ashok: preDestroy method? Ashok: Pradeep: There is a pattern in windowing systems ... close and then destroy Ashok: Pradeep: Shd preDestroy return boolean saying you can or cannot destroy me Ashok: Mark: is there guidance that you shd not call finalize? Ashok: Mark: Java 53 ... what happend if init throws a runtime exception Ashok: In this case postInit would not be called and object would not transition to running state Ashok: s/happend/happen/ Ashok: Created, Initializing, Running, Terminating, Terminated Ashok: What is state when injection occurring? Ashok: New state: Injected Ashok: Need state diagram Ashok: Mike: Can I dispatch to you if in preDestroy state? Ashok: Mike argues shd not dispatch because runtime knows he is going away Ashok: Will throw exception Ashok: Anish: destroy wd be called only is you are no longer in scope or preDestroyed Ashok: Mike: Asks whey we need preDestroy? Mark Combellack lowered your hand Ashok: s/whey/why/ Ashok: Mark: Explains graceful shutdown Ashok: Simon: predestroy is a courtesy notification from the runtime ... method while in running state Ashok: Martin: I think undeploy is another state Ashok: Discussion on whether postInit and preDestroy are separate states Ashok: Dave: preDestroy is like quiesce Ashok: Break for 15 minutes Mark Combellack: Resume at 11:10 Ashok: Resuming after break Ashok: ACTION: Mark to write up state diagram on blackboard Ashok: Topic: Java 20 -- Annotations on parameters Ashok: Proposal on JIRA and in email Mark Combellack: Java-20 proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200806/msg00017.html Ashok: Simon: 2 weeks ago this was discussed under issue 55 or 43 but no resolution Ashok: Dave: This is about references, your's is about propoerties. Ashok: Simon moves to resolve Jave 20 with text in above email Ashok: Dave Booz seconds Ashok: Mike: The @reference aspect already resolved by resolution to Java 43 Ashok: Seconded by Simon Ashok: Mike: Apply to constructor or constructor parameter Ashok: Simon: constructor parameter Ashok: Amendement accepted unanimously Ashok: Simon moves to resolve Java 20 with above amendment. Ashok: Anish makes another amendment anish: The @Property annotation is used to denote a Java class field, a setter method, or a constructor parameter that is used to inject an SCA property value. The type of the property injected, which can be a simple Java type or a complex Java type, is defined by the type of the Java class field or the type of the input parameter of the setter method or constructor. Ashok: Simon seconds Ashok: Amendment accepted unanimously Ashok: Dave: If you put @reference on a method parameter, what happens? Ashok: Error or ignored? Ashok: Not allowed to do on a setter method, not allowed on a constructor parameter Ashok: Simon: We may want to add words start of Chap 8. Ashok: ACTION: dave Booz to create issue on unsupported use of annotations. Ashok: Motion on table is text from Anish above noting the @reference aspect already resolved by Java 43 Ashok: Motion accepted unanimously. Java 20 is now resolved. Ashok: Topic: Java 39 -- incorrect example in Java C & I spec Ashok: Anish: The example was not a good example for that section Ashok: Chapter 5 around line 308 Ashok: Simon: split into 2 examples illustrating the 2 points Ashok: Mike: Does this fall afoul of the issue on Component Type ? Ashok: Mike: Mess is caused by uncertainty about what it means to be an unannotated class Ashok: Mark: There are many problems with this. Do we need a new proposal? Ashok: Simon: There are much bigger problems than issue 39 discusses. Ashok: ACTION: Mike to write new proposal for issue 39. Anish's action is discharged. Ashok: Topic: Java 46 ... equals method on service reference and callable reference Ashok: Mike: I read equals as identical Ashok: Simon: Do we have an issue on conversations Ashok: Mark thinks we do not Ashok: Question abt instance equality vs. type equality Ashok: Anish: Add methods to get info about services references Ashok: Simon: We still need to define equals Ashok: Mike: ... equal if metadata is equal Ashok: DaveB: We had a getMetadata method which returned the metadata serialized in XML in SDO form Mike Edwards: In sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd01.doc,
add after line 768:
equals( Object anObject ) - returns true if and only if anObject is:
a) a CallableReference object b) anObject relates to identically the same reference metadata as the Callable Reference.
otherwise returns false.
Note that "identically the same reference metadata" means that the metadata for the reference must be the same set of metadata in the domain and not merely the same values for the metadata. In particular, where a reference has 0..n or 1..n multiplicity, metadata for the nth reference is never identical to the metadata for the mth reference (where m <> n) even if it has the same values.
In addition, for a callback reference, since the metadata also involves dynamic information ("EPR") which cannot be compared equals() can only return true if anObject is identically the same as the CallableReference object.
add after line 799:
equals( Object anObject ) - returns true if and only if anObject is:
a) a ServiceReference object b) anObject relates to identically the same reference metadata as the ServiceReference.
otherwise returns false.
Note that "identically the same reference metadata" means that the metadata for the reference must be the same set of metadata in the domain and not merely the same values for the metadata. In particular, where a reference has 0..n or 1..n multiplicity, metadata for the nth reference is never identical to the metadata for the mth reference (where m <> n) even if it has the same values.
In addition, for a callback reference, since the metadata also involves dynamic information ("EPR") which cannot be compared equals() can only return true if anObject is identically the same as the ServiceReference object. Ashok: DaveB: Is there anything other than the structural URI in the metadata Ashok: Mark: If they had same binding and same structural URI and were considered equal then I would be happy Ashok: Simon: I thik we shd remove last para Ashok: s/thik/think/ Ashok: ACTION: Mark to write proposal fro Java 46 drawing inspiration from above text. Ashok: s/fro/for/ Ashok: No further discussion on Java 46 Ashok: Break for lunch Ashok: Resume at 1:50 Mark Combellack: Dinner venue for tonight:http://www.junction28.com/ Mark Combellack: table booked for 6:30 Pradeep: Scribe: Pradeep Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-60 Pradeep: Mike: We need Import.Java Pradeep: Discussion about using OSGi Pradeep: Action item: Dave to work on proposal for JAVA-60 Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-21 Mark Combellack: Proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200811/msg00005.html Pradeep: Request scope looks like a conversation. Pradeep: Mike: We need to understand the use case. Pradeep: Dave: This is about shared context. Pradeep: Mike: A session type activity stuff can include conversation stuff as well. Pradeep: Simon: How about removing request type scope and leaving conversations between 2 parties and detailing about callbacks. Pradeep: Mike: conversations is an assembly thing. Pradeep: Anish: Do a really good job of conversations (involving assembly, bindings) or get rid of it. Pradeep: Mark: A newcomer can look at the spec and say that SCA is stateless and no help for maintaining state. Pradeep: Mike: Remove conversational interfaces but keep conversation scope. Pradeep: We should annotate implementations and not interfaces for conversations. Pradeep: Martin: borrow the BPEL model of correlation sets Pradeep: Action item: Simon to raise new issue to simplified stateful implementation mechanism to replace conversations. Pradeep: Action item: Simon to write proposal for the same. Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-59 Pradeep: Discussion about naming the services. Pradeep: Action item: Mike to raise a new issue for providing names with @Service annotaion Pradeep: Action item: Mike to work on a new proposal for JAVA-59 Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-63 Pradeep: Mike: we should support constructor injection. Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-64 Pradeep: Mike makes a motion to resolve JAVA-64 by removing the SCA composite element from the spring specification Pradeep: Dave seconds Pradeep: Motion passes w/o Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-58 Pradeep: Action item: Mike to write up with proposal for JAVA-58 Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-92 Pradeep: Mike: Spring already has context file. We do not need another file. Pradeep: Mike: Leave JAVA-92 open for now. JAVA-58 needs to be done before JAVA-92. Pradeep: Break for 20 minutes: Resume at 15:35 GMT Pradeep: Meetting resumes. Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-21 Mark Combellack: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200811/msg00005.html Pradeep: Jim: Remove request scope and consider multi party conversation as a separate issue. Pradeep: Mike moves to resolve JAVA-21 by remove Request scope from the specification. Pradeep: Anish seconds Pradeep: Motion passed w/o Pradeep: JAVA-21 is now resolved Pradeep: Topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-30 Mark Combellack: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200807/msg00068.html Pradeep: Dave: user of a composite scoped component deployed in a cluster should see it as just one component. Pradeep: Dave: Composite scoped components are not singleton in the domain. For example, in the case of component in a cluster. Jim Marino: brb Pradeep: Discusssion about clusters, instances, state, @local=true Jim Marino: ok Pradeep: Dave: issue with stating that there is a single instance. in a cluster there are many instances. we need to describe this in terms of the callers of the component. Pradeep: Mark: can we use the term "logical instance" Pradeep: Mark: Do we need composite scope? Pradeep: Action item: Dave to come up with proper words for JAVA-30 based on Mike's proposal. Pradeep: Continuing discussions on Mikes proposal 2.2.3 b Pradeep: Action item: Anish to raise an issue on @init annotation on a static method. Pradeep: Discussion about scopes for implementation.composite. Jim Marino: sorry need to redial Jim Marino: phone dead one sec Pradeep: Mark: We need to figure out use cases for process scope. Pradeep: Jim: Composite scope with multiple instances (because of clustering) not replicating state is what is needed. Pradeep: Action item: Mark, Jim and Mike to describe use their cases for JAVA-30 Pradeep: Meeting recessed. Will resume tomorrow Nov 13 9:00 GMT |
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