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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
I used term 'composite' only because this word has somehow become commonly used but its sense is certainly 'aggregate'. I am happy with '...independent and aggregate services...' while, IMO, 'composable' and 'independent' are not antonyms: and independent service may be composed of other services. Aggregate, in the contrast, is the service that depends on others. I remember related discussion about a year ago in one of the Telecoms; I started to use the term 'aggregate' since that time but was asked on several occasions what it meant. - Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Odell" <email@jamesodell.com> > To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:22:54 -0400 > > > Additionally in UML ³composite aggregation², the composite object has > responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed objects > (parts). So can a composite service be thought of as having the > responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed objects > (parts)? I would say yes ‹ but is this always true? For example a Process > Order service could defined as a SOAservice that has responsibility for the > existence for other first class services that are composed (e.g., Accept > order, Fill Order, Ship Order and Close Order). Here, the cmpositing > service could include service orchestration, as Duane suggests. > On the other hand, Could I have a service that is a ³taxonomic² aggregation. > For example, a Process Payment service may simply consist of various kinds > of first class payment services, such as Cash Payment, Credit Card Payment, > Wire Transfer payment, etc). However, one could also argue that event this > could be thought of a composite, because it the responsibiliy for the > existence and storage of the composed services. However, this may or may > not nvolve orchestration ‹ only part whole. > > -Jim Odell > > > On 9/25/09 6:14 PM, "Duane Nickull" indited: > > > Via Aggregation. Aggregation is a UML pattern whereby the parts > > are ³used² by > > the whole. If th whole does not exist, the parts can exist which is > > necessary for re-use. Composition (by contrast) is a UML pattern whereby the > > parts are ³part of² the whole, hence their lifecycle is tied to the lifecycle > > of the whole. When the whole ceases to exist, so do the parts, > > hence making > > ³reuse² not possible. > > > > I think aggregation is a better term, however the press and others have > > already gone with ³service composition² as a buzzword. Service Orchestration > > is just as good as aggregation IMO. > > > > Duane > > > > > > > > On 9/25/09 2:50 PM, "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com> wrote: > > > >> If the services are not composable, then how are they better compared to > >> existing applications > >> > >> --- original message --- > >> From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starboune.com> > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-r] > >> positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >> Date: September 25, 2009 > >> Time: 4:41:26 PM > >> > >> Duane, I'm picturing you tugging on Superman's cape, while spittin' into > >> the wind, tilting at windmills and messin' with Bad Bad LeRoy Brown, > >> while sliding into heaven sideways, brew in hand singing, "What a Ride!" > >> > >> You're right, and so is Frank, and I definitely prefer "aggregate-able > >> or capable of being included in various types of aggregations,"... > >> > >> but I think the boat already left, folks. We don't have to catch up with > >> it nor need we catch the next one. It will go as it will. > >> > >> I personally don't have strong enough feelings about it to be road kill > >> for it or against it. I happen to be involved in a set of SOA services > >> that absolutely MUST be composable, but I am satisfied that they will be > >> regardless of how this sentence in theSOA-RAF introduction is worded. > >> > >> It makes it marginally easier for me to get the business audiences I > >> deal with to act right if "composable" services is something I can point > >> to when or if we get people insisting on something really dumb, like > >> "Point-to-Point" is the only distribution protocol that counts," or "we > >> can use the rules for RSS Feeds for all distribution." I suppose its not > >> impossible, but I don't really expect to see it. > >> > >> BTW, I don't read the sentence to ean that ALL independent services > >> MUST also be composable. It means " a network of independent services > >> and/or composable services." I think independent composable services is > >> almost a contradiction of erms or almost an oxymoron. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Rex > >> > >> Duane Nickull wrote: > >>> > My take on this: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2007/09/soa-anti-patterns-service-compositio > >>> n.html > >>> > > >>> > D > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On 9/25/9 1:21 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > I do not have any strong objections. > >>> > > >>> > 'Composable' means to me that the service may be composed; the > >>> > question is - composed by what and how this corresponds to > >>> > 'independent'? 'Composite' or 'aggregate' (as Ken pointed once) is > >>> > the service, which is composed already by other services, which > >>> > comprises other services, i.e. it is not independent. This is what > >>> > I tried to "EmFasis" :-) > >>> > > >>> > You, folks, decide. > >>> > > >>> > - Michael > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> > >>>> > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, "Mike > >>> > Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >>> > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >>>> > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:34 -0500 > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Mike, I like the sentence. Boris, I think that "composable > >>> > services" is > >>>> > > the correct term. I've heard many "experts" and "gurus" use the > term > >>>> > > and concept since at least 2003 and seems to me to put the > >>> > "EmFasis on > >>>> > > the rite Silobbal", as my dad would say. > >>>> > > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- > >>>> > > From: Lublinsky, Boris [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] > >>>> > > Sent: Friday,September 25, 2009 3:50 PM > >>>> > > To: Mike Poulin; Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris; > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Composable? > >>>> > > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- > >>>> > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >>>> > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:27 PM > >>>> > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris; > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Bob, > >>>> > > this is the phrase: > >>>> > > > >>>> > > From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of > >>>> > > independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, > >>> > use and > >>>> > > govern those services as well as ... > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > I propose to say: "...a network of independent and composite > >>> > services, > >>>> > > machines, the..." > >>>> > > > >>>> > > - Michael > >>>> > > > >>>>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> > >>>>> > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris" > >>>> > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >>>>> > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:28 -0500 > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > There was one sentence that you sent that I could not make head > or > >>>> > > tail > >>>>> > > > of as I noted. Otherwise, I hought I had incorporated all of > your > >>>>> > > > comments > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > Bob > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > -----Original Message----- > >>>>> > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >>>>> > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:31 PM > >>>>> > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris; > >>>>> > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >>>> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > I am afraid, I am lost. I do not see some of the > >>>>> crucial changes > I > >>>>> > > > advocated for and you agreed to accommodate: > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must > >>>>> be understood > in > >>>>> > > > terms of its support of business services." > >>>>> > > > - MP - great! > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > "Business services provide business functionality in pursuit of > >>>> > > business > >>>>> > > > outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts > >>>>> that facilitate > >>>>> > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the > >>> > business > >>>>> > > > services." > >>>>> > > > - MP - my proposal: 'Business services provide business > >>> > functionality > >>>> > > in > >>>>> > > > pursuit of the business outcome; while IT artifacts facilitate > >>>>> > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the > >>> > business > >>>>> > > > services.' > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > "Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > >>>>> Business, but is > of > >>>> > > both > >>>>> > > > worlds." > >>>>> > > > - MP - great! You commented: 'This doesn't make sense to me. It > >>> > is not > >>>>> > > > cnnected to SOA in anyway' but left the statement. I am for > having > >>>> > >this > >>>>> > > > statement as it is (it is not my text but very right oe IMO) > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > "Neither Business nor IT completely own govern, and manage > >>> > this SOA > >>>>> > > > Ecosystem. The SOA Eosystem must accommodate both sets of > concerns > >>>> > > for > >>>>> > > > t fulfill its purpose and potential." > >>>>> > > > - MP - great! > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > "Business needs to drive the development of services delivered > >>> > through > >>>>> > > > processes and its supporting IT, which provides the capability > that > >>>>> > > > satisfies those needs. This is the business value of SOA." > >>>>> > > > - MP - development of services is not necessary delivered > through > >>>>> > > > processes and supporting IT. This is why my proposal is: > >>>>> > > > 'Business needs to drive the development of services, which > >>> > provides > >>>>> > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business > >>> > value > >>>> > > of > >>>>> > > > SOA.' > >>>>> > > > or > >>>>> > > > 'Business needs to drive the development of > >>>>> services delivered > >>>> > > through > >>>>> > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability that satisfies > those > >>>>> > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.' > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > (i.e. none Business or IT , or both; SOA is in between them) > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > Thus, my variant of the text looks like this: > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood > in > >>>> > > terms > >>>>> > > > of its support of business services. Business services provide > >>>> > > business > >>>>> > > > functionality in pursuit of the business outcome; while IT > >>> > artifacts > >>>>> > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize and > >>> > support the > >>>>> > > > business services. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor > wholly > >>>>> > > > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT >>>>> > completely > >>>> > > own, > >>>>> > > > govern, and manage this SOA Ecosystem. The SOA Ecosystem must > >>>>> > > > accommodate both sets of concerns for to fulfill > >>>>> its purpose and > >>>>> > > > potential. Business needs to drive the development of services, > >>> > which > >>>>> > > > provides the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the > >>>> > > business > >>>>> > > > value of SOA. > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > - Michael > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> > >>>>>> > > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris" > >>>>> > > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >>>>> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > >>>>> and business] > >>>>>> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:56:23 -0500 > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > Try this. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > Bob > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >>>>>> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31 AM > >>>>>> > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris; Mike Poulin; > >>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > business] > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > Boris has reminded me one thing: in the paragraph following > >>> > the two > >>>>>> > > > > paragraphs we are discussing now we say something like 'SOA > is a > >>>>> > > > network > >>>>>> > > > > of independent services...' I would modify this phrase a bit > >>> > saying > >>>>>> > > > > something like 'SOA is a network of independent > >>>>>> and composite > >>>>>> > > > > services...' > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > Sorry, I did not mention this earlier. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > This is all what I wanted to say about SOA and Buz. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > - Michael > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> > > > > From: "Lublinsky, Boris" > >>>>>> > > > > To: "Mike Poulin" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > business] > >>>>>> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:04:35 -0500 > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > I tend to agree with Mike/jeff > >>>>>> > > > > See below > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >>>>>> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:15 AM > >>>>>> > > > > To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > business] > >>>>>> > > > > Importance: High > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > I believe service orientation has the enormous potential to > >>> > become > >>>> > > the > >>>>>> > > > > basic business operational model and SOA will be > >>>>>> the basis of > the > >>>>>> > > > > Business Architecture. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > Since we do not have time for this discussion now, let's > >>> > return to > >>>> > > our > >>>>>> > > > > text. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. Moreover, as I re read the text I am realizing more and > more > >>>> > > that > >>>>>> > > > > this is not so much about SOA but mostly about ESB. I am of > >>> > course > >>>>> > > > over > >>>>>> > > > > simplifying, but hopefully you got the jest. We managed to > >>> > leap frog > >>>>>> > > > > business architecture and servicizing the > >>>>>> enterprise and jump > >>>> > > directly > >>>>>> > > > > into the issues of service interaction - ecosystem. This is > fine, > >>>> > > but > >>>>>> > > > > who is going to live in this wonderful ecosystem. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > The only thing I hope to set in the RA standard is an open > >>> > door to > >>>> > > the > >>>>>> > > > > Business opportunity of SOA instead of locking it in IT. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > This means I vote for enough 'ambiguity' in the text that > would > >>>> > > allow > >>>>>> > > > > anybody to go with SOA in both - technical and business - > >>>> > > directions, > >>>>> > > > if > >>>>>> > > > > needed. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. Fair enough. Lets create the door, but may be, just may > >>> > be open > >>>>> > > > it > >>>>>> > > > > up slightly for the next review. This is why I think, the > >>> > text under > >>>>>> > > > > discussion, does not belong in the ecosystem, but rather > >>> > above it. > >>>> > > We > >>>>>> > > > > talk about business/IT alignment and then define ecosystem > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > The following is my modifications to the text that together > >>> > aim only > >>>>> > > > one > >>>>>> > > > > statement: "SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > >>>>>> Business, but > >>> > is of > >>>>> > > > both > >>>>>> > > > > worlds." Particularly: > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > a) I agree in full with: > >>>>>> > > > > < > >>>>>> > > > > components and subsystems. They must be understood within > their > >>>>> > > > context > >>>>>> > > > > or environment; particularly, when there are many > >>> > interactions among > >>>>> > > > the > >>>>>> > > > > parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a > >>>>>> self-sustaining > >>>>>> > > > > association of plants, animals, and the physical environment > in > >>>> > > which > >>>>>> > > > > they live. Understanding an ecosystem often requires this > >>> > holistic > >>>>>> > > > > perspective of the system and its environment > >>>>>> rather than one > >>>> > > focusing > >>>>>> > > > > on the system's individual parts.>> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > b) I DISagree with << The SOA Ecosystem described in this > >>> > document > >>>>> > > > must > >>>>>> > > > > be understood in terms of its support of business services, > >>> > which is > >>>>> > > > its > >>>>>> > > > > environment.>> > >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is this: > >>>>>> > > > > << The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be > >>> > understood > >>>> > > in > >>>>>> > > > > terms of its support of business services.>> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. See comment above > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > c) I DISagree with << Business services provide business > >>>> > > functionality > >>>>>> > > > > in pursuit of the business outcome; while SOA services > provide IT > >>>>>> > > > > artifacts that facilitate connectivity of > >>>>>> functional units to > >>>> > > realize > >>>>>> > > > > and support the business services. Therefore, SOA is neither > >>> > wholly > >>>> > > IT > >>>>>> > > > > nor wholly Business, but is of both worlds. >> > >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is this: > >>>>>> > > > > < > >>>>>> > > > > outcome, together with its technical realization and support > >>>> > > provided > >>>>> > > > by > >>>>>> > > > > Information Technology. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT > nor > >>>> > > wholly > >>>>>> > > > > Business, but is of both worlds.>> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. How about: > >>>>>> > > > > << SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is of > both > >>>>> > > > worlds. > >>>>>> > > > > Without involvement of the business, defining service > >>> > functionality > >>>>>> > > > > based on the enterprise business model and aligned with the > >>>> > > enterprise > >>>>>> > > > > business processes, SOA can't fulfill the promise of > business/IT > >>>>>> > > > > alignment and support for flexible, process-driven > enterprise. > >>>> > > Without > >>>>>> > > > > involvement of IT, implementing SOA ecosystem, supporting > >>> > flexible > >>>>>> > > > > service deployment, interactions, monitoring and management > SOA > >>>> > > can't > >>>>>> > > > > fulfill the promise of scalable, maintainable IT.>> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > d) I DISagree with << Business needs drive the > >>>>>> development of > >>>> > > services > >>>>>> > > > > delivered through IT, which provides the capability that > >>> > satisfies > >>>>> > > > those > >>>>>> > > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> > >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is: > >>>>>> > > > > << Business needs to drive the development of > >>>>>> services, which > >>>> > > provides > >>>>>> > > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the > business > >>>> > > value > >>>>> > > > of > >>>>>> > > > > SOA.>> > >>>>>> > > > > or > >>>>>> > > > > << Business needs to drive the development of services > delivered > >>>>> > > > through > >>>>>> > > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability > >>>>>> that satisfies > >>> > those > >>>>>> > > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > Regards, > >>>>>> > > > > - Michael > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" To: "Mike Poulin" , > "Lublinsky, > >>>>> > > > Boris" > >>>>>> > > > > , rexb@starbourne.com > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday > [was: > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > business] > >>>>>>> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:30:41 -0500 > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Mike: > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > We are trying to get to the same concept, but really what > >>> > is being > >>>>>>> > > > > > discussed is a cultural paradigm shift. In my view, the > >>> > execution > >>>>>>> > > > > > context is the technical context within which the service > >>>> > > components > >>>>>>> > > > > > exist and within in which they are executed as enablers > and > >>>> > > support > >>>>>> > > > > for > >>>>>>> > > > > > the process. The service components are the parts and > >>>> > > subassemblies. > >>>>>>> > > > > > The process flow, which is part of the execution context, > as > >>>> > > defined > >>>>>> > > > > by > >>>>>>> > > > > > the orchestration or choreography (both of which have > business > >>>> > > rules > >>>>>>> > > > > > engines to ensure that policies/standards/business > >>> > rules/etc. are > >>>>>>> > > > > > followed). > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Business process modeling as instantiated by > >>>>>>> the assembled > >>> > of the > >>>>> > > > SOA > >>>>>>> > > > > > service components, with the associated business rule, > >>> > links the > >>>>>> > > > > system > >>>>>>> > > > > > to the business processes. Provided that the business > processes > >>>>> > > > serve > >>>>>>> > > > > > the goals or objectives or the business (that is provides > >>> > value to > >>>>> > > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > business) then the tools as instantiated in the SOA > service > >>>>> > > > multiplies > >>>>>>> > > > > > the effectiveness of the process. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > The cultural shift involves the fact that when business > >>> > challenges > >>>>> > > > or > >>>>>>> > > > > > opportunities arise, the business processes and SOA > supporting > >>>>>> > > > > services > >>>>>>> > > > > > can meet those challenge because SOA enable > >>>>>>> agile systems. > I > >>>> > > define > >>>>>>> > > > > > agility as "successful response to unexpected challenges > and > >>>>>>> > > > > > opportunities." BTW, this is the definition > >>>>>>> of the Agility > >>> > Forum > >>>>>> > > > > (circa > >>>>>>> > > > > > 1990) associated with Lehigh University (that > >>>>>>> is Nagel and > his > >>>> > > group > >>>>>>> > > > > > that wrote the book on the agile enterprise). Currently, > the > >>>>>> > > > > monolithic > >>>>>>> > > > > > architecture of most ERP-like systems do not allow > agility, > >>> > while > >>>>>>> > > > > > functional architecture place emphasis on optimizing for > the > >>>>> > > > function; > >>>>>>> > > > > > creating silos. There is an axiom in Systems Engineering > that > >>>>>>> > > > > > optimizing the subsystems, sub-optimizes the system. SOA > >>> > enables > >>>>> > > > both > >>>>>>> > > > > > optimization and agility of the system, but requires > mapping of > >>>> > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > system to the organization's processes as the price > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I could and have said a great deal more, but I think that > is > >>>> > > enough. > >>>>>>> > > > > > The linkage is there for anyone to get the maximum value > out of > >>>> > > the > >>>>>> > > > > SOA > >>>>>>> > > > > > and both the business processes and the composite > applications > >>>>>> > > > > (process > >>>>>>> > > > > > assembled service components???) or whatever operating in > the > >>>>>> > > > > execution > >>>>>>> > > > > > context, must enable and support the processes. As the > >>> > processes > >>>>>> > > > > change > >>>>>>> > > > > > in response to challenges and opportunities, both the > processes > >>>> > > and > >>>>>> > > > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > composite application must respond quickly and > >>> > successfully. This > >>>> > > is > >>>>>>> > > > > > not the way it is done now, and that is the cultural > change > >>> > that > >>>> > > is > >>>>>>> > > > > > needed. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 PM > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris; > >>> > rexb@starbourne.com > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday > [was: > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >>> > business] > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Robert, > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > as we know SOA defines Execution Context. Since we never > >>> > defined > >>>>> > > > what > >>>>>> > > > > it > >>>>>>> > > > > > includes, I suggest (and promote this opinion) that EC > includes > >>>>>> > > > > Business > >>>>>>> > > > > > EC and Technical EC. Business services cannot be 'the > >>> > environment > >>>> > > of > >>>>>> > > > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA Ecosystem' because it is included into SOA. Business > EC > >>>> > > defines > >>>>>>> > > > > > business execution policies and Technical EC defines > technical > >>>>>> > > > > execution > >>>>>>> > > > > > policies. SOA Ecosystem comprises both business and > technical > >>>>> > > > realms. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Phrase "while SOA services provide IT artifacts that > facilitate > >>>>>>> > > > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support > the > >>>> > > business > >>>>>>> > > > > > services."" has a problem because SOA service does not > >>> > necessary > >>>>>>> > > > > > "facilitate connectivity of functional units". For > instance,a > >>>>>>> > > > > > self-contained stand-alone business technical service > >>> > realises its > >>>>> > > > own > >>>>>>> > > > > > business function or feature w/o joining with other > "functional > >>>>>> > > > > units". > >>>>>>> > > > > > Plus, SOA Service may or may not contain any > >>>>>>> IT artefacts. > Time > >>>> > > when > >>>>>> > > > > SOA > >>>>>>> > > > > > was considered a pure technical thing is gone (and for > good). > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I agree with you on "The value of IT is the same as any > other > >>>> > > tool". > >>>>>>> > > > > > This is why I think that statement " Business needs drive > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > development of services delivered through IT, which > >>> > provides the > >>>>>>> > > > > > capability that satisfies those needs. This is the > business > >>> > value > >>>> > > of > >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA" requires corrections. Development of services is not > >>>> > > necessary > >>>>>>> > > > > > delivered through IT, it may be purely manual business > >>> > service and > >>>>>> > > > > many > >>>>>>> > > > > > services of such nature exist. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Based on my discussion in several Business Architecture > >>> > groups on > >>>>> > > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > Web, any business process in Business may be defined as > >>> > business > >>>>>> > > > > service > >>>>>>> > > > > > with or without technical component. > >>>>>>> Implementation of the > >>>> > > business > >>>>>>> > > > > > service, as we know, is not that important for > >>>>>>> service-oriented > >>>>>>> > > > > > Architecture. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > If we state that SOA positions BETWEEN > >>>>>>> Business and IT, we > >>> > MAY NOT > >>>>>>> > > > > > attribute it to IT only and confront it with the business > >>> > service. > >>>>>> > > > > This > >>>>>>> > > > > > is illogical. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > - Michael > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , rexb@starbourne.com > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , mpoulin@usa.com, > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday > [was: > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >>> > business] > >>>>>>> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:49 -0500 > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > See below > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Lublinsky, Boris > >>>>>>> [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); rexb@starbourne.com; > >>> > Lublinsky, Boris > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday > [was: > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >>> > business] > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I have no idea what this means: > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be > >>> > understood > >>>> > > in > >>>>>>> > > > > > terms of its support of business services, which is its > >>>>> > > > environment." > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > What is which environment? > >>>>>>> > > > > > Business services are the environment of the SOA > Ecosystem. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Also: > >>>>>>> > > > > > " Business services provide business functionality in > >>> > pursuit of > >>>>>>> > > > > > business outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts > that > >>>>>>> > > > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units > >>>>>>> to realize and > >>> > support > >>>>> > > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > business services." > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA services is a complete misnomer. Infrastructure I can > >>> > buy, but > >>>>> > > > SOA > >>>>>>> > > > > > services? > >>>>>>> > > > > > I disagree with that. The infrastructure provides nothing > >>> > except > >>>> > > an > >>>>>>> > > > > > operating context. Only when SOA Service (which in my > >>>> > > understanding > >>>>> > > > is > >>>>>>> > > > > > a composite application with contractual obligations) > >>> > provide any > >>>>>> > > > > value > >>>>>>> > > > > > to the customer. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > And finally: > >>>>>>> > > > > > " Business needs drive the development of services > delivered > >>>> > > through > >>>>>> > > > > IT, > >>>>>>> > > > > > which provides the capability that satisfies those needs. > >>> > This is > >>>>> > > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > business value of SOA." > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > This has several problems: > >>>>>>> > > > > > 1. Business is concerned only with business services and > drives > >>>>> > > > their > >>>>>>> > > > > > design, not development 2. What is the business value? > What > >>> > does > >>>>> > > > this > >>>>>>> > > > > > points to? > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > My understanding of the term development is that it > includes > >>>> > > design, > >>>>>> > > > > but > >>>>>>> > > > > > if you want to change it...The value of IT is the same as > any > >>>> > > other > >>>>>>> > > > > > tool, to multiple the value of the process. > >>>>>>> > > > > > Adam Smith pointed this out in Chapter 1 of Book 1 of the > >>> > Wealth > >>>> > > of > >>>>>>> > > > > > Nations. This is a point lost on IT as this comment > >>> > demonstrates. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I think we are digressing. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I hope not. > >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > >>>>>>> [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:46 AM > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: rexb@starbourne.com; Lublinsky, Boris > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday > [was: > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >>> > business] > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Hi: > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Please try this edit. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Bob > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 AM > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; > >>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com; > >>>>>>> > > > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday > [was: > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >>> > business] > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Very minor grammar correction, Boris, > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I'm just a nit picker. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > ;) > >>>>>>> > > > > > Rex > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I haven't seen people discussing my grammar so much > >>> > lately. I am > >>>>>> > > > > doing > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > something wrong sorry. > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I am fine with managing > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken; > >>>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com; > > > > > >>>>> > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >>>>>>>> for Wednesday > [was: > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >>> > business] > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Hi Folks, > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I'm being technically challenged at the moment with > remote > >>>>>>> > > > > > participation > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > in overlapping meetings the latter of which isn't > starting > >>>>>> > > > > and > > the former of which appears to have > >>>>>> ended early while > I > >>>>>> > > > > dropped > > off to attend the latter.Sheseh! > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Here's how I would correct Boris's grammar with one > >>>>>> > > > > word-substitution: > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > don't want the concept of "orchestration" being > confused with > >>>> > > the > >>>>>> > > > > use > >>>>>>> > > > > > of > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > "orchestrating" so I am changing that to "managing" > which we > >>>> > > don't > >>>>>>> > > > > > spend > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just > >>>>>>>> want to avoid > >>> > anyone > >>>>>> > > > > asking > >>>>>>> > > > > > if > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > we mean that "all business services must be delivered > via > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > orchestration."): > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Business drives the definition of business services > aligned > >>>>>>> > > > > > with > enterprise business functionality and business > >>>>> > > > processes, > > > managing execution of these services, while IT > >>>>> > > > defines > > > infrastructure services, > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > providing support across a wide range of business > services > >>>>>> > > > > and > > implements both types of services. Such > >>>>>> collaboration > > > >>>>> > > > allows > > stronger communications between both, by creating > > >>>>> > > > one-to-one > > mapping between business and IT artifacts. > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did > >>>>>>>> not actually > >>>>> > > > pick > up > > Boris's additions and so didn't drop > >>>>> them, and Ken > >>>>> > > > had one > more > > addition he was considering, > >>>>> could we ask Ken > >>>>> > > > to correct > > Boris's > grammar, fold in Bob's > >>>>> slight rewording > >>>>> > > > and add his > > piece? Then, > perhaps Jeff and/or Jim could > make > >>>>> > > > the crisp > > differentiation > between business services and > SOA > >>>>> > > > services or > > between business > services and IT > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > services > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Cheers, > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Rex > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote: > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Didn't intend to drop Boris's additions...must of > missed > > >>>>> > > > them. > I >> thought we were to start from where you left off, > so > >>>>>> > > > > that is > >> what I > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > did. > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working concurrently > and the > >>>>> > > > material > >>>>>>> > > > > > crossed. > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Bob > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:10 AM > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> To: Lublinsky, Boris > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; > mpoulin@usa.com; > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > Wednesday > >>> > [was: > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > and > >>>> > > business] > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor > >>> > quibbles with > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > correct > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree > with > >>>>> > > > Jeff > > that >> the distinction between "business service' and > >>>>> > > > "SOA > > service" >> needs to be made. In general I think > simpler > >>>>> > > > is > > better, but as >> long as the grammar is corrected, I'd > be > >>>>> > > > fine > > with Boris's >> additions. I don't have any problems > >>>>> > > > with Bob's > > minor rewording, >> but i don't see why he > dropped > >>>>> > > > Boris's > > additions.. > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> I'll look at it again in the morning. > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Rex > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> You through away all changes that were suggested > after this > >>>>>> > > > > initial > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> one? > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > >>> > [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > Wednesday > >>> > [was: > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > and > >>>> > > business] > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording... > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original > >>>> > > Message----- > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > Wednesday > >>> > [was: > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > and > >>>> > > business] > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional > paragraph > >>>>>>> > > > > > after >>> the first paragraph. I include the first > paragraph > >>>>> > > > and > > the >>> start of the current second paragraph here for > >>>>> > > > the > > context: > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem > Perspective > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple > decomposition > >>>> > > into > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > parts > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and subsystems -- in particular when > >>>>>>>>>> there are many > >>> > > >>>>>> > > > > interactions between the parts. For example, a > >>>>>> biological >>> > > > >>>>>> > > > > ecosystem is a self-sustaining association of plants, > animals, > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and the hysical environment in which they live. > >>>>> > > > Undestanding > > an >>> ecosystem often requires a holistic > >>>>> > > > perspective rather > > than one >>> focusing on the > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> system's individual parts. > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document > occupies the > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>> > boundary between Business and IT. It is neither > wholly IT > >>>>>> > > > > nor >>> > wholly Business, > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT > >>> > completely own, > >>>>>>> > > > > > govern > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of > concerns must > >>>>>> > > > > be > >>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its > > >>>>> > > > purposes. > >>> Business > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> needs drive the development of services delivered > through > >>>>>> > > > > IT, > >>> providing the capability that satisfies those > needs. > >>>>>> > > > > This is > >>> the business value of SOA. > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is > a > > >>>>> > > > network > of >>> independent services, machines, the people who > > > >>>>> > > > operate, > affect, >>> use and govern those services as well as > > > >>>>> > > > ... > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex Brooks wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Hi Ken, Everyone, > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is > your > >>> > reply to > >>>>>>> > > > > > Frank: > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> / > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> 200906/msg00012.html > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 > PM: > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We > have > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>> > > consistently identified SOA as being at the > boundary > >>>>> > > > between > >>>> > business and IT. It > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of > both > >>> > worlds. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> That represents potentially one of > >>>>>>>>>>> SOA's greatest > >>>>> > > > opportunities; > >>>>>>> > > > > > and > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business > nor IT can > >>>>>>> > > > > > completely > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> own/grok SOA. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Frank" > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> The email referenced above contains the most or > all of the > >>>>> > > > thread > >>>>>>> > > > > > "Are > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> we being ignored?" > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say > more than > >>>>>>> > > > > > "The >>>> SOA Ecosystem described in this document > occupies > >>>>> > > > the > > boundary >>>> between Business and IT. It is neither > >>>>> > > > wholly IT > > nor wholly >>>> Business, but is > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT > completely own, > >>>>>>> > > > > > govern >>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of > >>>>> > > > concerns > > MUST be > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > accommodated > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes." > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Rex > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Laskey, Ken wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are > scheduled to > >>>> > > discuss > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > adding > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business. > Below is > >>> > text > >>>>>>> > > > > > suggested > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email > from > >>> > Boris with > >>>> > > a > >>>>>> > > > > lot > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > added/substituted/combined. > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that > we can > >>> > bring > >>>>> > > > this > >>>>>>> > > > > > to > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's > call. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I remember there was an email > >>>>>>>>>>>> where Frank wrote > something > >>>> > > very > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > crisp > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> on this subject that I replied was > >>>>>>>>>>>> exactly what > we > >>> > needed to > >>>>>> > > > > say. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email > thread > >>>> > > occurred. > >>>>>> > > > > If > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a > good > >>>> > > contribution > >>>>>> > > > > to > >>>>>>> > > > > > the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate > things > >>> > come to > >>>>>> > > > > mind. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of > >>>>>>>>>>>> the views and > this > >>> > is not > >>>> > > a > >>>>>> > > > > view > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after > section 1.2, > >>>> > > possibly > >>>>>> > > > > as > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> another short section. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what > >>>>>>>>>>>> the phrase "the > > > >>>>> > > > similarity > of >>>>> the principles of the Value Networks > > >>>>> > > > business model" > means. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Ken > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ------ > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: > >>>>>>>>>>>> 703-983-7934 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 703-983-1379 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > Sent: > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>> > Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:31 AM > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the > cusp > >>> > between IT > >>>>> > > > and > >>>>>>> > > > > > business > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks, > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I join Francis and Boris in > >>>>>>>>>>>> suggestion that SOA > RA's > >>>>>> > > > > Introduction > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of > paragraphs on the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> business aspects of SOA positioned across > Business and > >>>>> > > > IT. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words > for a > >>> > small > >>>>>> > > > > section > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an > initial > >>> > draft > >>>>>> > > > > during > >>>>>>> > > > > > the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may > be > >>> > found in > >>>> > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > middle > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of this message chain. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Any suggestions? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - Michael > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: > >>>>>>>>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >>>> > > Date: > >>>>> > > > 8 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Sep > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > business" is > >>>> > > what > >>>>> > > > I > >>>>>>> > > > > > write > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let > >>>>>>>>>>>> me propose a > >>> > strawman for > >>>>>> > > > > this > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> text: > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented > Architecture > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes > principles > >>> > of the > >>>>>> > > > > concept > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> service orientation in the sphere of > architecture. The > >>>>>>> > > > > > architecture > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> in the organisation comprises both business > >>>>> > > > architecture > > and >>>>> technical architecture > >>>>> of the systems > >>>>> > > > [ref. to TOGAF > > 9.0]. >>>>> While SOA-based systems address > >>>>> > > > aspects of the > > technical >>>>> architecture, > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > the > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value > Networks > >>> > business > >>>>>> > > > > model > >>>>>>> > > > > > and > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a > >>>>>>>>>>>> conceptual bridge > between > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> corporate Business and IT. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities > for > >>> > Business > >>>> > > and > >>>>>> > > > > IT > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > to > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric > convergent > >>>>> > > > solutions > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > for > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables > > > >>>>> > > > operational > >>>>> and technical flexibility, > >>>>> which contributes > >>>>>> > > > > to business > >>>>> efficiency the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> great deal. The Service > >>>>>>>>>>>> Orientation concept has > the > > > >>>>> > > > potential >>>>> not only to align IT with Business, but also to > > > >>>>>> > > > > align the >>>>> entire > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > company > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> with the market dynamics. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I > will > >>> > work on > >>>>> > > > the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> wording. > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - Michael Poulin > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: Francis McCabe To: > >>> > "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA" > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a > paragraph or two > >>>>>> > > > > in > >>>>> the introduction positioning SOA on the cusp > between > >>>>>> > > > > IT and > >>>>> business could be very useful. It is also > pretty > >>>>>> > > > > faithful > to >>>>> the RAF! > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM > referred > > > >>>>> > > > *everything* >>>>> involved in interacting with services. For > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > RA we have to > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > unpack > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> that some. This is the foundation for the > multi-leveled > >>>>> > > > concept > >>>>>> > > > > of > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> joint action. This should go in Section 3.1. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security > >>>>>>>>>>>> diagram should > be > > >>>>> > > > updated > >>>>> and incorporated. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go > in. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the > text > >>> > bolding > >>>>>>> > > > > > defined > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> concepts. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | > [Date > >>> > Next] -- > >>>>>> > > > > [Date > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home] > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex Brooks > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> President, CEO > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Starbourne Communications Design > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Berkeley, CA 94702 > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Tel: 510-898-0670 > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> - To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must > leave the > >>>>>>> > > > > > OASIS >>> TC that generates this mail. Follow > >>>>>>> this link to > >>>>> > > > all > > your TCs >>> in OASIS > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> at: > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> The information contained in this > >>>>>>>>>> communication may > be > >>>>>> > > > > CONFIDENTIAL > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) > named > >>>> > > above. > >>>>>> > > > > If > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > >>>>> > > > notified > > that >> any dissemination, > >>>>> distribution, or copying > >>>>> > > > of this >> > > communication, or any > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > of > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> its contents, is strictly prohibited. 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Follow this link to > all > >>>>> > > > your > TCs > in >> OASIS at: > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> p > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -- > >>>>>>> > > > > > Rex Brooks > >>>>>>> > > > > > President, CEO > >>>>>>> > > > > > Starbourne Communications Design > >>>>>>> > > > > > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > >>>>>>> > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94702 > >>>>>>> > > > > > Tel: 510-898-0670 > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > The information contained in this communication may be > >>>> > > CONFIDENTIAL > >>>>>> > > > > and > >>>>>>> > > > > > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named > >>> > above. If > >>>> > > you > >>>>>>> > > > > > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > >>> > that any > >>>>>>> > > > > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > >>> > communication, or > >>>>> > > > any > >>>>>> > > > > of > >>>>>>> > > > > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you > >>>>>>> have received > this > >>>>>>> > > > > > communication in error, please notify the sender and > >>>> > > delete/destroy > >>>>>> > > > > the > >>>>>>> > > > > > original message and any copy of it from your computer or > paper > >>>>> > > > files. > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > OASIS TC > >>>> > > that > >>>>>>> > > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in > >>> > OASIS at: > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -- > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >>>>>>> > > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% > >>>>>>> > > > > > 20> > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > -- > >>>>>> > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >>>>>> > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > >>> > TC that > >>>>>> > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in > >>> > OASIS at: > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > The information contained in this communication may be > >>> > CONFIDENTIAL > >>>>>> > > > > and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named > above. > >>>>>> > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > >>> > notified that > >>>>>> > > > > any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > >>> > communication, > >>>>>> > > > > or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >>>>>> > > > > received this communication in error, please notify the > >>> > sender and > >>>>>> > > > > delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from > your > >>>>>> > > > > computer or paper files. > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > >>> > TC that > >>>>>> > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in > >>> > OASIS at: > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > -- > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >>>>>> > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.freecredi > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% > >>>>>> > > > > 20> > >>>>>> > > > > << bus and tech 2.doc >> > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > -- > >>>>> > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >>>>> > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC > >>> > that > >>>>> > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS > at: > >>>>> > > > > >>> > > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > -- > >>>> > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >>>> > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > The information contained in this communication may be > >>> > CONFIDENTIAL and > >>>> > > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If > you > >>>> > > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > >>>> > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or > >>> > any of > >>>> > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > >>>> > > communication in error, please notify the sender and > >>> > delete/destroy the > >>>> > > original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper > >>> > files. > >>> > > >>>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >>> > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > >>> > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > >>> > > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle - > >>> > http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE > >>> > Twitter: duancechaos > >>> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Rex Brooks > >> President, CEO > >> Starbourne Communications Design > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > >> Berkeley, CA 94702 > >> Tel: 510-898-0670 > >> > >> > >> > >> The information contained in this communication may be > >> CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the > >> recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended > >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > >> distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its > >> contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > >> communication in error, please notify the sender and > >> delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from your > >> computer or paper files. > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > >> > -- An Excellent Credit Score is 750 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
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