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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
I used term 'composite' only because this word has somehow become commonly used but its sense is certainly 'aggregate'.
I am happy with '...independent and aggregate services...' while, IMO, 'composable' and 'independent' are not antonyms: and independent service may be composed of other services. Aggregate, in the contrast, is the service that depends on others.
I remember related discussion about a year ago in one of the Telecoms; I started to use the term 'aggregate' since that time but was asked on several occasions what it meant.
- Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Odell" <email@jamesodell.com>
> To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:22:54 -0400
>
>
> Additionally in UML ³composite aggregation², the composite object has
> responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed objects
> (parts). So can a composite service be thought of as having the
> responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed objects
> (parts)? I would say yes ‹ but is this always true? For example a Process
> Order service could defined as a SOAservice that has responsibility for the
> existence for other first class services that are composed (e.g., Accept
> order, Fill Order, Ship Order and Close Order). Here, the cmpositing
> service could include service orchestration, as Duane suggests.
> On the other hand, Could I have a service that is a ³taxonomic² aggregation.
> For example, a Process Payment service may simply consist of various kinds
> of first class payment services, such as Cash Payment, Credit Card Payment,
> Wire Transfer payment, etc). However, one could also argue that event this
> could be thought of a composite, because it the responsibiliy for the
> existence and storage of the composed services. However, this may or may
> not nvolve orchestration ‹ only part whole.
>
> -Jim Odell
>
>
> On 9/25/09 6:14 PM, "Duane Nickull" indited:
>
> > Via Aggregation. Aggregation is a UML pattern whereby the parts
> > are ³used² by
> > the whole. If th whole does not exist, the parts can exist which is
> > necessary for re-use. Composition (by contrast) is a UML pattern whereby the
> > parts are ³part of² the whole, hence their lifecycle is tied to the lifecycle
> > of the whole. When the whole ceases to exist, so do the parts,
> > hence making
> > ³reuse² not possible.
> >
> > I think aggregation is a better term, however the press and others have
> > already gone with ³service composition² as a buzzword. Service Orchestration
> > is just as good as aggregation IMO.
> >
> > Duane
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/25/09 2:50 PM, "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If the services are not composable, then how are they better compared to
> >> existing applications
> >>
> >> --- original message ---
> >> From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starboune.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-r]
> >> positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> >> Date: September 25, 2009
> >> Time: 4:41:26 PM
> >>
> >> Duane, I'm picturing you tugging on Superman's cape, while spittin' into
> >> the wind, tilting at windmills and messin' with Bad Bad LeRoy Brown,
> >> while sliding into heaven sideways, brew in hand singing, "What a Ride!"
> >>
> >> You're right, and so is Frank, and I definitely prefer "aggregate-able
> >> or capable of being included in various types of aggregations,"...
> >>
> >> but I think the boat already left, folks. We don't have to catch up with
> >> it nor need we catch the next one. It will go as it will.
> >>
> >> I personally don't have strong enough feelings about it to be road kill
> >> for it or against it. I happen to be involved in a set of SOA services
> >> that absolutely MUST be composable, but I am satisfied that they will be
> >> regardless of how this sentence in theSOA-RAF introduction is worded.
> >>
> >> It makes it marginally easier for me to get the business audiences I
> >> deal with to act right if "composable" services is something I can point
> >> to when or if we get people insisting on something really dumb, like
> >> "Point-to-Point" is the only distribution protocol that counts," or "we
> >> can use the rules for RSS Feeds for all distribution." I suppose its not
> >> impossible, but I don't really expect to see it.
> >>
> >> BTW, I don't read the sentence to ean that ALL independent services
> >> MUST also be composable. It means " a network of independent services
> >> and/or composable services." I think independent composable services is
> >> almost a contradiction of erms or almost an oxymoron.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Rex
> >>
> >> Duane Nickull wrote:
> >>> > My take on this:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2007/09/soa-anti-patterns-service-compositio
> >>> n.html
> >>> >
> >>> > D
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On 9/25/9 1:21 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > I do not have any strong objections.
> >>> >
> >>> > 'Composable' means to me that the service may be composed; the
> >>> > question is - composed by what and how this corresponds to
> >>> > 'independent'? 'Composite' or 'aggregate' (as Ken pointed once) is
> >>> > the service, which is composed already by other services, which
> >>> > comprises other services, i.e. it is not independent. This is what
> >>> > I tried to "EmFasis" :-)
> >>> >
> >>> > You, folks, decide.
> >>> >
> >>> > - Michael
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com>
> >>>> > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, "Mike
> >>> > Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> >>> > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> >>>> > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:34 -0500
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > Mike, I like the sentence. Boris, I think that "composable
> >>> > services" is
> >>>> > > the correct term. I've heard many "experts" and "gurus" use the
> term
> >>>> > > and concept since at least 2003 and seems to me to put the
> >>> > "EmFasis on
> >>>> > > the rite Silobbal", as my dad would say.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>> > > From: Lublinsky, Boris [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com]
> >>>> > > Sent: Friday,September 25, 2009 3:50 PM
> >>>> > > To: Mike Poulin; Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris;
> >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > Composable?
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>> > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> >>>> > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:27 PM
> >>>> > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris;
> >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > Bob,
> >>>> > > this is the phrase:
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of
> >>>> > > independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect,
> >>> > use and
> >>>> > > govern those services as well as ...
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > I propose to say: "...a network of independent and composite
> >>> > services,
> >>>> > > machines, the..."
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > - Michael
> >>>> > >
> >>>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com>
> >>>>> > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris"
> >>>> > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> >>>>> > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:28 -0500
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > There was one sentence that you sent that I could not make head
> or
> >>>> > > tail
> >>>>> > > > of as I noted. Otherwise, I hought I had incorporated all of
> your
> >>>>> > > > comments
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > Bob
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> >>>>> > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:31 PM
> >>>>> > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris;
> >>>>> > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> >>>> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > I am afraid, I am lost. I do not see some of the
> >>>>> crucial changes
> I
> >>>>> > > > advocated for and you agreed to accommodate:
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must
> >>>>> be understood
> in
> >>>>> > > > terms of its support of business services."
> >>>>> > > > - MP - great!
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > "Business services provide business functionality in pursuit of
> >>>> > > business
> >>>>> > > > outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts
> >>>>> that facilitate
> >>>>> > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the
> >>> > business
> >>>>> > > > services."
> >>>>> > > > - MP - my proposal: 'Business services provide business
> >>> > functionality
> >>>> > > in
> >>>>> > > > pursuit of the business outcome; while IT artifacts facilitate
> >>>>> > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the
> >>> > business
> >>>>> > > > services.'
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > "Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly
> >>>>> Business, but is
> of
> >>>> > > both
> >>>>> > > > worlds."
> >>>>> > > > - MP - great! You commented: 'This doesn't make sense to me. It
> >>> > is not
> >>>>> > > > cnnected to SOA in anyway' but left the statement. I am for
> having
> >>>> > >this
> >>>>> > > > statement as it is (it is not my text but very right oe IMO)
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > "Neither Business nor IT completely own govern, and manage
> >>> > this SOA
> >>>>> > > > Ecosystem. The SOA Eosystem must accommodate both sets of
> concerns
> >>>> > > for
> >>>>> > > > t fulfill its purpose and potential."
> >>>>> > > > - MP - great!
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > "Business needs to drive the development of services delivered
> >>> > through
> >>>>> > > > processes and its supporting IT, which provides the capability
> that
> >>>>> > > > satisfies those needs. This is the business value of SOA."
> >>>>> > > > - MP - development of services is not necessary delivered
> through
> >>>>> > > > processes and supporting IT. This is why my proposal is:
> >>>>> > > > 'Business needs to drive the development of services, which
> >>> > provides
> >>>>> > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business
> >>> > value
> >>>> > > of
> >>>>> > > > SOA.'
> >>>>> > > > or
> >>>>> > > > 'Business needs to drive the development of
> >>>>> services delivered
> >>>> > > through
> >>>>> > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability that satisfies
> those
> >>>>> > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.'
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > (i.e. none Business or IT , or both; SOA is in between them)
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > Thus, my variant of the text looks like this:
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood
> in
> >>>> > > terms
> >>>>> > > > of its support of business services. Business services provide
> >>>> > > business
> >>>>> > > > functionality in pursuit of the business outcome; while IT
> >>> > artifacts
> >>>>> > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize and
> >>> > support the
> >>>>> > > > business services. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor
> wholly
> >>>>> > > > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT >>>>>
> completely
> >>>> > > own,
> >>>>> > > > govern, and manage this SOA Ecosystem. The SOA Ecosystem must
> >>>>> > > > accommodate both sets of concerns for to fulfill
> >>>>> its purpose and
> >>>>> > > > potential. Business needs to drive the development of services,
> >>> > which
> >>>>> > > > provides the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the
> >>>> > > business
> >>>>> > > > value of SOA.
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > - Michael
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com>
> >>>>>> > > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris"
> >>>>> > > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> >>>>> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT
> >>>>> and business]
> >>>>>> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:56:23 -0500
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > Try this.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > Bob
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> >>>>>> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31 AM
> >>>>>> > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris; Mike Poulin;
> >>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> business]
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > Boris has reminded me one thing: in the paragraph following
> >>> > the two
> >>>>>> > > > > paragraphs we are discussing now we say something like 'SOA
> is a
> >>>>> > > > network
> >>>>>> > > > > of independent services...' I would modify this phrase a bit
> >>> > saying
> >>>>>> > > > > something like 'SOA is a network of independent
> >>>>>> and composite
> >>>>>> > > > > services...'
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > Sorry, I did not mention this earlier.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > This is all what I wanted to say about SOA and Buz.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > - Michael
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> > > > > From: "Lublinsky, Boris"
> >>>>>> > > > > To: "Mike Poulin" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> business]
> >>>>>> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:04:35 -0500
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > I tend to agree with Mike/jeff
> >>>>>> > > > > See below
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> >>>>>> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:15 AM
> >>>>>> > > > > To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> business]
> >>>>>> > > > > Importance: High
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > I believe service orientation has the enormous potential to
> >>> > become
> >>>> > > the
> >>>>>> > > > > basic business operational model and SOA will be
> >>>>>> the basis of
> the
> >>>>>> > > > > Business Architecture.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > Since we do not have time for this discussion now, let's
> >>> > return to
> >>>> > > our
> >>>>>> > > > > text.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > B.L. Moreover, as I re read the text I am realizing more and
> more
> >>>> > > that
> >>>>>> > > > > this is not so much about SOA but mostly about ESB. I am of
> >>> > course
> >>>>> > > > over
> >>>>>> > > > > simplifying, but hopefully you got the jest. We managed to
> >>> > leap frog
> >>>>>> > > > > business architecture and servicizing the
> >>>>>> enterprise and jump
> >>>> > > directly
> >>>>>> > > > > into the issues of service interaction - ecosystem. This is
> fine,
> >>>> > > but
> >>>>>> > > > > who is going to live in this wonderful ecosystem.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > The only thing I hope to set in the RA standard is an open
> >>> > door to
> >>>> > > the
> >>>>>> > > > > Business opportunity of SOA instead of locking it in IT.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > This means I vote for enough 'ambiguity' in the text that
> would
> >>>> > > allow
> >>>>>> > > > > anybody to go with SOA in both - technical and business -
> >>>> > > directions,
> >>>>> > > > if
> >>>>>> > > > > needed.
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > B.L. Fair enough. Lets create the door, but may be, just may
> >>> > be open
> >>>>> > > > it
> >>>>>> > > > > up slightly for the next review. This is why I think, the
> >>> > text under
> >>>>>> > > > > discussion, does not belong in the ecosystem, but rather
> >>> > above it.
> >>>> > > We
> >>>>>> > > > > talk about business/IT alignment and then define ecosystem
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > The following is my modifications to the text that together
> >>> > aim only
> >>>>> > > > one
> >>>>>> > > > > statement: "SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly
> >>>>>> Business, but
> >>> > is of
> >>>>> > > > both
> >>>>>> > > > > worlds." Particularly:
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > a) I agree in full with:
> >>>>>> > > > > <
> >>>>>> > > > > components and subsystems. They must be understood within
> their
> >>>>> > > > context
> >>>>>> > > > > or environment; particularly, when there are many
> >>> > interactions among
> >>>>> > > > the
> >>>>>> > > > > parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a
> >>>>>> self-sustaining
> >>>>>> > > > > association of plants, animals, and the physical environment
> in
> >>>> > > which
> >>>>>> > > > > they live. Understanding an ecosystem often requires this
> >>> > holistic
> >>>>>> > > > > perspective of the system and its environment
> >>>>>> rather than one
> >>>> > > focusing
> >>>>>> > > > > on the system's individual parts.>>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > b) I DISagree with << The SOA Ecosystem described in this
> >>> > document
> >>>>> > > > must
> >>>>>> > > > > be understood in terms of its support of business services,
> >>> > which is
> >>>>> > > > its
> >>>>>> > > > > environment.>>
> >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is this:
> >>>>>> > > > > << The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be
> >>> > understood
> >>>> > > in
> >>>>>> > > > > terms of its support of business services.>>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > B.L. See comment above
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > c) I DISagree with << Business services provide business
> >>>> > > functionality
> >>>>>> > > > > in pursuit of the business outcome; while SOA services
> provide IT
> >>>>>> > > > > artifacts that facilitate connectivity of
> >>>>>> functional units to
> >>>> > > realize
> >>>>>> > > > > and support the business services. Therefore, SOA is neither
> >>> > wholly
> >>>> > > IT
> >>>>>> > > > > nor wholly Business, but is of both worlds. >>
> >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is this:
> >>>>>> > > > > <
> >>>>>> > > > > outcome, together with its technical realization and support
> >>>> > > provided
> >>>>> > > > by
> >>>>>> > > > > Information Technology. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT
> nor
> >>>> > > wholly
> >>>>>> > > > > Business, but is of both worlds.>>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > B.L. How about:
> >>>>>> > > > > << SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is of
> both
> >>>>> > > > worlds.
> >>>>>> > > > > Without involvement of the business, defining service
> >>> > functionality
> >>>>>> > > > > based on the enterprise business model and aligned with the
> >>>> > > enterprise
> >>>>>> > > > > business processes, SOA can't fulfill the promise of
> business/IT
> >>>>>> > > > > alignment and support for flexible, process-driven
> enterprise.
> >>>> > > Without
> >>>>>> > > > > involvement of IT, implementing SOA ecosystem, supporting
> >>> > flexible
> >>>>>> > > > > service deployment, interactions, monitoring and management
> SOA
> >>>> > > can't
> >>>>>> > > > > fulfill the promise of scalable, maintainable IT.>>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > d) I DISagree with << Business needs drive the
> >>>>>> development of
> >>>> > > services
> >>>>>> > > > > delivered through IT, which provides the capability that
> >>> > satisfies
> >>>>> > > > those
> >>>>>> > > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>>
> >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is:
> >>>>>> > > > > << Business needs to drive the development of
> >>>>>> services, which
> >>>> > > provides
> >>>>>> > > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the
> business
> >>>> > > value
> >>>>> > > > of
> >>>>>> > > > > SOA.>>
> >>>>>> > > > > or
> >>>>>> > > > > << Business needs to drive the development of services
> delivered
> >>>>> > > > through
> >>>>>> > > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability
> >>>>>> that satisfies
> >>> > those
> >>>>>> > > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > Regards,
> >>>>>> > > > > - Michael
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> > > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" To: "Mike Poulin" ,
> "Lublinsky,
> >>>>> > > > Boris"
> >>>>>> > > > > , rexb@starbourne.com
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday
> [was:
> >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> business]
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:30:41 -0500
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Mike:
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > We are trying to get to the same concept, but really what
> >>> > is being
> >>>>>>> > > > > > discussed is a cultural paradigm shift. In my view, the
> >>> > execution
> >>>>>>> > > > > > context is the technical context within which the service
> >>>> > > components
> >>>>>>> > > > > > exist and within in which they are executed as enablers
> and
> >>>> > > support
> >>>>>> > > > > for
> >>>>>>> > > > > > the process. The service components are the parts and
> >>>> > > subassemblies.
> >>>>>>> > > > > > The process flow, which is part of the execution context,
> as
> >>>> > > defined
> >>>>>> > > > > by
> >>>>>>> > > > > > the orchestration or choreography (both of which have
> business
> >>>> > > rules
> >>>>>>> > > > > > engines to ensure that policies/standards/business
> >>> > rules/etc. are
> >>>>>>> > > > > > followed).
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Business process modeling as instantiated by
> >>>>>>> the assembled
> >>> > of the
> >>>>> > > > SOA
> >>>>>>> > > > > > service components, with the associated business rule,
> >>> > links the
> >>>>>> > > > > system
> >>>>>>> > > > > > to the business processes. Provided that the business
> processes
> >>>>> > > > serve
> >>>>>>> > > > > > the goals or objectives or the business (that is provides
> >>> > value to
> >>>>> > > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > business) then the tools as instantiated in the SOA
> service
> >>>>> > > > multiplies
> >>>>>>> > > > > > the effectiveness of the process.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > The cultural shift involves the fact that when business
> >>> > challenges
> >>>>> > > > or
> >>>>>>> > > > > > opportunities arise, the business processes and SOA
> supporting
> >>>>>> > > > > services
> >>>>>>> > > > > > can meet those challenge because SOA enable
> >>>>>>> agile systems.
> I
> >>>> > > define
> >>>>>>> > > > > > agility as "successful response to unexpected challenges
> and
> >>>>>>> > > > > > opportunities." BTW, this is the definition
> >>>>>>> of the Agility
> >>> > Forum
> >>>>>> > > > > (circa
> >>>>>>> > > > > > 1990) associated with Lehigh University (that
> >>>>>>> is Nagel and
> his
> >>>> > > group
> >>>>>>> > > > > > that wrote the book on the agile enterprise). Currently,
> the
> >>>>>> > > > > monolithic
> >>>>>>> > > > > > architecture of most ERP-like systems do not allow
> agility,
> >>> > while
> >>>>>>> > > > > > functional architecture place emphasis on optimizing for
> the
> >>>>> > > > function;
> >>>>>>> > > > > > creating silos. There is an axiom in Systems Engineering
> that
> >>>>>>> > > > > > optimizing the subsystems, sub-optimizes the system. SOA
> >>> > enables
> >>>>> > > > both
> >>>>>>> > > > > > optimization and agility of the system, but requires
> mapping of
> >>>> > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > system to the organization's processes as the price
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > I could and have said a great deal more, but I think that
> is
> >>>> > > enough.
> >>>>>>> > > > > > The linkage is there for anyone to get the maximum value
> out of
> >>>> > > the
> >>>>>> > > > > SOA
> >>>>>>> > > > > > and both the business processes and the composite
> applications
> >>>>>> > > > > (process
> >>>>>>> > > > > > assembled service components???) or whatever operating in
> the
> >>>>>> > > > > execution
> >>>>>>> > > > > > context, must enable and support the processes. As the
> >>> > processes
> >>>>>> > > > > change
> >>>>>>> > > > > > in response to challenges and opportunities, both the
> processes
> >>>> > > and
> >>>>>> > > > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > composite application must respond quickly and
> >>> > successfully. This
> >>>> > > is
> >>>>>>> > > > > > not the way it is done now, and that is the cultural
> change
> >>> > that
> >>>> > > is
> >>>>>>> > > > > > needed.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 PM
> >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris;
> >>> > rexb@starbourne.com
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday
> [was:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> >>> > business]
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Robert,
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > as we know SOA defines Execution Context. Since we never
> >>> > defined
> >>>>> > > > what
> >>>>>> > > > > it
> >>>>>>> > > > > > includes, I suggest (and promote this opinion) that EC
> includes
> >>>>>> > > > > Business
> >>>>>>> > > > > > EC and Technical EC. Business services cannot be 'the
> >>> > environment
> >>>> > > of
> >>>>>> > > > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA Ecosystem' because it is included into SOA. Business
> EC
> >>>> > > defines
> >>>>>>> > > > > > business execution policies and Technical EC defines
> technical
> >>>>>> > > > > execution
> >>>>>>> > > > > > policies. SOA Ecosystem comprises both business and
> technical
> >>>>> > > > realms.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Phrase "while SOA services provide IT artifacts that
> facilitate
> >>>>>>> > > > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support
> the
> >>>> > > business
> >>>>>>> > > > > > services."" has a problem because SOA service does not
> >>> > necessary
> >>>>>>> > > > > > "facilitate connectivity of functional units". For
> instance,a
> >>>>>>> > > > > > self-contained stand-alone business technical service
> >>> > realises its
> >>>>> > > > own
> >>>>>>> > > > > > business function or feature w/o joining with other
> "functional
> >>>>>> > > > > units".
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Plus, SOA Service may or may not contain any
> >>>>>>> IT artefacts.
> Time
> >>>> > > when
> >>>>>> > > > > SOA
> >>>>>>> > > > > > was considered a pure technical thing is gone (and for
> good).
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > I agree with you on "The value of IT is the same as any
> other
> >>>> > > tool".
> >>>>>>> > > > > > This is why I think that statement " Business needs drive
> the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > development of services delivered through IT, which
> >>> > provides the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > capability that satisfies those needs. This is the
> business
> >>> > value
> >>>> > > of
> >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA" requires corrections. Development of services is not
> >>>> > > necessary
> >>>>>>> > > > > > delivered through IT, it may be purely manual business
> >>> > service and
> >>>>>> > > > > many
> >>>>>>> > > > > > services of such nature exist.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Based on my discussion in several Business Architecture
> >>> > groups on
> >>>>> > > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Web, any business process in Business may be defined as
> >>> > business
> >>>>>> > > > > service
> >>>>>>> > > > > > with or without technical component.
> >>>>>>> Implementation of the
> >>>> > > business
> >>>>>>> > > > > > service, as we know, is not that important for
> >>>>>>> service-oriented
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Architecture.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > If we state that SOA positions BETWEEN
> >>>>>>> Business and IT, we
> >>> > MAY NOT
> >>>>>>> > > > > > attribute it to IT only and confront it with the business
> >>> > service.
> >>>>>> > > > > This
> >>>>>>> > > > > > is illogical.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > - Michael
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> > > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)"
> >>>>>>> > > > > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , rexb@starbourne.com
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , mpoulin@usa.com,
> >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday
> [was:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> >>> > business]
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:49 -0500
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > See below
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Lublinsky, Boris
> >>>>>>> [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com]
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM
> >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); rexb@starbourne.com;
> >>> > Lublinsky, Boris
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday
> [was:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> >>> > business]
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > I have no idea what this means:
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be
> >>> > understood
> >>>> > > in
> >>>>>>> > > > > > terms of its support of business services, which is its
> >>>>> > > > environment."
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > What is which environment?
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Business services are the environment of the SOA
> Ecosystem.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Also:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > " Business services provide business functionality in
> >>> > pursuit of
> >>>>>>> > > > > > business outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts
> that
> >>>>>>> > > > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units
> >>>>>>> to realize and
> >>> > support
> >>>>> > > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > business services."
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA services is a complete misnomer. Infrastructure I can
> >>> > buy, but
> >>>>> > > > SOA
> >>>>>>> > > > > > services?
> >>>>>>> > > > > > I disagree with that. The infrastructure provides nothing
> >>> > except
> >>>> > > an
> >>>>>>> > > > > > operating context. Only when SOA Service (which in my
> >>>> > > understanding
> >>>>> > > > is
> >>>>>>> > > > > > a composite application with contractual obligations)
> >>> > provide any
> >>>>>> > > > > value
> >>>>>>> > > > > > to the customer.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > And finally:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > " Business needs drive the development of services
> delivered
> >>>> > > through
> >>>>>> > > > > IT,
> >>>>>>> > > > > > which provides the capability that satisfies those needs.
> >>> > This is
> >>>>> > > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > business value of SOA."
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > This has several problems:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > 1. Business is concerned only with business services and
> drives
> >>>>> > > > their
> >>>>>>> > > > > > design, not development 2. What is the business value?
> What
> >>> > does
> >>>>> > > > this
> >>>>>>> > > > > > points to?
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > My understanding of the term development is that it
> includes
> >>>> > > design,
> >>>>>> > > > > but
> >>>>>>> > > > > > if you want to change it...The value of IT is the same as
> any
> >>>> > > other
> >>>>>>> > > > > > tool, to multiple the value of the process.
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Adam Smith pointed this out in Chapter 1 of Book 1 of the
> >>> > Wealth
> >>>> > > of
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Nations. This is a point lost on IT as this comment
> >>> > demonstrates.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > I think we are digressing.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > I hope not.
> >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS)
> >>>>>>> [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com]
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:46 AM
> >>>>>>> > > > > > To: rexb@starbourne.com; Lublinsky, Boris
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday
> [was:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> >>> > business]
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Hi:
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Please try this edit.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Bob
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 AM
> >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken;
> >>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com;
> >>>>>>> > > > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday
> [was:
> >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> >>> > business]
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Very minor grammar correction, Boris,
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > I'm just a nit picker.
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > ;)
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Rex
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I haven't seen people discussing my grammar so much
> >>> > lately. I am
> >>>>>> > > > > doing
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > something wrong sorry.
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I am fine with managing
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS)
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken;
> >>>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com; > >
> >
> >>>>> > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion
> >>>>>>>> for Wednesday
> [was:
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> >>> > business]
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Hi Folks,
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I'm being technically challenged at the moment with
> remote
> >>>>>>> > > > > > participation
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > in overlapping meetings the latter of which isn't
> starting
> >>>>>> > > > > and > > the former of which appears to have
> >>>>>> ended early while
> I
> >>>>>> > > > > dropped > > off to attend the latter.Sheseh!
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Here's how I would correct Boris's grammar with one
> >>>>>> > > > > word-substitution:
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > don't want the concept of "orchestration" being
> confused with
> >>>> > > the
> >>>>>> > > > > use
> >>>>>>> > > > > > of
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > "orchestrating" so I am changing that to "managing"
> which we
> >>>> > > don't
> >>>>>>> > > > > > spend
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just
> >>>>>>>> want to avoid
> >>> > anyone
> >>>>>> > > > > asking
> >>>>>>> > > > > > if
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > we mean that "all business services must be delivered
> via
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > orchestration."):
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Business drives the definition of business services
> aligned
> >>>>>>> > > > > > with > enterprise business functionality and business
> >>>>> > > > processes, > > > managing execution of these services, while IT
> >>>>> > > > defines > > > infrastructure services,
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > providing support across a wide range of business
> services
> >>>>>> > > > > and > > implements both types of services. Such
> >>>>>> collaboration
> >
> >>>>> > > > allows > > stronger communications between both, by creating >
> >>>>> > > > one-to-one > > mapping between business and IT artifacts.
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did
> >>>>>>>> not actually
> >>>>> > > > pick > up > > Boris's additions and so didn't drop
> >>>>> them, and Ken
> >>>>> > > > had one > more > > addition he was considering,
> >>>>> could we ask Ken
> >>>>> > > > to correct > > Boris's > grammar, fold in Bob's
> >>>>> slight rewording
> >>>>> > > > and add his > > piece? Then, > perhaps Jeff and/or Jim could
> make
> >>>>> > > > the crisp > > differentiation > between business services and
> SOA
> >>>>> > > > services or > > between business > services and IT
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > services
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Cheers,
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Rex
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote:
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Didn't intend to drop Boris's additions...must of
> missed >
> >>>>> > > > them. > I >> thought we were to start from where you left off,
> so
> >>>>>> > > > > that is > >> what I
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > did.
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working concurrently
> and the
> >>>>> > > > material
> >>>>>>> > > > > > crossed.
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Bob
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:10 AM
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> To: Lublinsky, Boris
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken;
> mpoulin@usa.com;
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> Wednesday
> >>> > [was:
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT
> and
> >>>> > > business]
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor
> >>> > quibbles with
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > correct
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree
> with
> >>>>> > > > Jeff > > that >> the distinction between "business service' and
> >>>>> > > > "SOA > > service" >> needs to be made. In general I think
> simpler
> >>>>> > > > is > > better, but as >> long as the grammar is corrected, I'd
> be
> >>>>> > > > fine > > with Boris's >> additions. I don't have any problems
> >>>>> > > > with Bob's > > minor rewording, >> but i don't see why he
> dropped
> >>>>> > > > Boris's > > additions..
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> I'll look at it again in the morning.
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Rex
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> You through away all changes that were suggested
> after this
> >>>>>> > > > > initial
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> one?
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS)
> >>> > [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com]
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> Wednesday
> >>> > [was:
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT
> and
> >>>> > > business]
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording...
> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original
> >>>> > > Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> Wednesday
> >>> > [was:
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT
> and
> >>>> > > business]
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional
> paragraph
> >>>>>>> > > > > > after >>> the first paragraph. I include the first
> paragraph
> >>>>> > > > and > > the >>> start of the current second paragraph here for
> >>>>> > > > the > > context:
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem
> Perspective
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple
> decomposition
> >>>> > > into
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > parts
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and subsystems -- in particular when
> >>>>>>>>>> there are many
> >>> >
> >>>>>> > > > > interactions between the parts. For example, a
> >>>>>> biological >>>
> >
> >>>>>> > > > > ecosystem is a self-sustaining association of plants,
> animals,
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and the hysical environment in which they live.
> >>>>> > > > Undestanding > > an >>> ecosystem often requires a holistic
> >>>>> > > > perspective rather > > than one >>> focusing on the
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> system's individual parts.
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document
> occupies the
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>> > boundary between Business and IT. It is neither
> wholly IT
> >>>>>> > > > > nor >>> > wholly Business,
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT
> >>> > completely own,
> >>>>>>> > > > > > govern
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of
> concerns must
> >>>>>> > > > > be > >>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its >
> >>>>> > > > purposes. > >>> Business
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> needs drive the development of services delivered
> through
> >>>>>> > > > > IT, > >>> providing the capability that satisfies those
> needs.
> >>>>>> > > > > This is > >>> the business value of SOA.
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is
> a >
> >>>>> > > > network > of >>> independent services, machines, the people who
> >
> >>>>> > > > operate, > affect, >>> use and govern those services as well as
> >
> >>>>> > > > ...
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex Brooks wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Hi Ken, Everyone,
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is
> your
> >>> > reply to
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Frank:
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> /
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> 200906/msg00012.html
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12
> PM:
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We
> have
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>> > > consistently identified SOA as being at the
> boundary
> >>>>> > > > between > >>>> > business and IT. It
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of
> both
> >>> > worlds.
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> That represents potentially one of
> >>>>>>>>>>> SOA's greatest
> >>>>> > > > opportunities;
> >>>>>>> > > > > > and
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business
> nor IT can
> >>>>>>> > > > > > completely
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> own/grok SOA.
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Frank"
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> The email referenced above contains the most or
> all of the
> >>>>> > > > thread
> >>>>>>> > > > > > "Are
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> we being ignored?"
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say
> more than
> >>>>>>> > > > > > "The >>>> SOA Ecosystem described in this document
> occupies
> >>>>> > > > the > > boundary >>>> between Business and IT. It is neither
> >>>>> > > > wholly IT > > nor wholly >>>> Business, but is
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT
> completely own,
> >>>>>>> > > > > > govern >>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of
> >>>>> > > > concerns > > MUST be
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > accommodated
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes."
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Rex
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Laskey, Ken wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are
> scheduled to
> >>>> > > discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > adding
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business.
> Below is
> >>> > text
> >>>>>>> > > > > > suggested
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email
> from
> >>> > Boris with
> >>>> > > a
> >>>>>> > > > > lot
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > added/substituted/combined.
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that
> we can
> >>> > bring
> >>>>> > > > this
> >>>>>>> > > > > > to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's
> call.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I remember there was an email
> >>>>>>>>>>>> where Frank wrote
> something
> >>>> > > very
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > crisp
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> on this subject that I replied was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> exactly what
> we
> >>> > needed to
> >>>>>> > > > > say.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email
> thread
> >>>> > > occurred.
> >>>>>> > > > > If
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a
> good
> >>>> > > contribution
> >>>>>> > > > > to
> >>>>>>> > > > > > the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> discussion.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate
> things
> >>> > come to
> >>>>>> > > > > mind.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the views and
> this
> >>> > is not
> >>>> > > a
> >>>>>> > > > > view
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after
> section 1.2,
> >>>> > > possibly
> >>>>>> > > > > as
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> another short section.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the phrase "the
> >
> >>>>> > > > similarity > of >>>>> the principles of the Value Networks >
> >>>>> > > > business model" > means.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Ken
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 703-983-7934
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax:
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 703-983-1379
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> Sent: >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>> > Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:31 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the
> cusp
> >>> > between IT
> >>>>> > > > and
> >>>>>>> > > > > > business
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I join Francis and Boris in
> >>>>>>>>>>>> suggestion that SOA
> RA's
> >>>>>> > > > > Introduction
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of
> paragraphs on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> business aspects of SOA positioned across
> Business and
> >>>>> > > > IT.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words
> for a
> >>> > small
> >>>>>> > > > > section
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an
> initial
> >>> > draft
> >>>>>> > > > > during
> >>>>>>> > > > > > the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may
> be
> >>> > found in
> >>>> > > the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > middle
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of this message chain.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Any suggestions?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - Michael
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>> > > Date:
> >>>>> > > > 8
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Sep
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> business" is
> >>>> > > what
> >>>>> > > > I
> >>>>>>> > > > > > write
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let
> >>>>>>>>>>>> me propose a
> >>> > strawman for
> >>>>>> > > > > this
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> text:
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented
> Architecture
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes
> principles
> >>> > of the
> >>>>>> > > > > concept
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> service orientation in the sphere of
> architecture. The
> >>>>>>> > > > > > architecture
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> in the organisation comprises both business
> >>>>> > > > architecture > > and >>>>> technical architecture
> >>>>> of the systems
> >>>>> > > > [ref. to TOGAF > > 9.0]. >>>>> While SOA-based systems address
> >>>>> > > > aspects of the > > technical >>>>> architecture,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > the
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value
> Networks
> >>> > business
> >>>>>> > > > > model
> >>>>>>> > > > > > and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> conceptual bridge
> between
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> corporate Business and IT.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities
> for
> >>> > Business
> >>>> > > and
> >>>>>> > > > > IT
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > to
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric
> convergent
> >>>>> > > > solutions
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > for
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables
> >
> >>>>> > > > operational > >>>>> and technical flexibility,
> >>>>> which contributes
> >>>>>> > > > > to business > >>>>> efficiency the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> great deal. The Service
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Orientation concept has
> the > >
> >>>>> > > > potential >>>>> not only to align IT with Business, but also to
> >
> >>>>>> > > > > align the >>>>> entire
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > company
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> with the market dynamics.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I
> will
> >>> > work on
> >>>>> > > > the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> wording.
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - Michael Poulin
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: Francis McCabe To:
> >>> > "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a
> paragraph or two
> >>>>>> > > > > in > >>>>> the introduction positioning SOA on the cusp
> between
> >>>>>> > > > > IT and > >>>>> business could be very useful. It is also
> pretty
> >>>>>> > > > > faithful > to >>>>> the RAF!
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM
> referred > >
> >>>>> > > > *everything* >>>>> involved in interacting with services. For
> the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > RA we have to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > unpack
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> that some. This is the foundation for the
> multi-leveled
> >>>>> > > > concept
> >>>>>> > > > > of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> joint action. This should go in Section 3.1.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security
> >>>>>>>>>>>> diagram should
> be >
> >>>>> > > > updated > >>>>> and incorporated.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go
> in.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the
> text
> >>> > bolding
> >>>>>>> > > > > > defined
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> concepts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] |
> [Date
> >>> > Next] --
> >>>>>> > > > > [Date
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex Brooks
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> President, CEO
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Starbourne Communications Design
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Berkeley, CA 94702
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Tel: 510-898-0670
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> - To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must
> leave the
> >>>>>>> > > > > > OASIS >>> TC that generates this mail. Follow
> >>>>>>> this link to
> >>>>> > > > all > > your TCs >>> in OASIS
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> at:
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> The information contained in this
> >>>>>>>>>> communication may
> be
> >>>>>> > > > > CONFIDENTIAL
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s)
> named
> >>>> > > above.
> >>>>>> > > > > If
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> >>>>> > > > notified > > that >> any dissemination,
> >>>>> distribution, or copying
> >>>>> > > > of this >> > > communication, or any
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > of
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received
> >>>>>>> > > > > > this >> communication in error, please notify the sender
> and
> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> > > delete/destroy
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > > the
> >>>>>>>> > > > > > >
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> original message and any copy of it from your
> computer
> >>> > or paper
> >>>>>>> > > > > > files.
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> --
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Rex Brooks
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> President, CEO
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Starbourne Communications Design
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Berkeley, CA 94702
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Tel: 510-898-0670
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>> > >
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> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> p
> >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>
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> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > --
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Rex Brooks
> >>>>>>> > > > > > President, CEO
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Starbourne Communications Design
> >>>>>>> > > > > > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94702
> >>>>>>> > > > > > Tel: 510-898-0670
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
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> >>>>>>> > > > > > The information contained in this communication may be
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> this
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> >>>> > > delete/destroy
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> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > --
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> >>>>>>> > > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5%
> >>>>>>> > > > > > 20>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > --
> >>>>>> > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> >>>>>> > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> >>>>>> > > > >
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> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>> > > > > The information contained in this communication may be
> >>> > CONFIDENTIAL
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> above.
> >>>>>> > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
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> >>>>>> > > > > or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have
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> >>>>>> > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> >>>>>> > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.freecredi
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5%
> >>>>>> > > > > 20>
> >>>>>> > > > > << bus and tech 2.doc >>
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > --
> >>>>> > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> >>>>> > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>> > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > --
> >>>> > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> >>>> > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > The information contained in this communication may be
> >>> > CONFIDENTIAL and
> >>>> > > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If
> you
> >>>> > > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> >>>> > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or
> >>> > any of
> >>>> > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> >>>> > > communication in error, please notify the sender and
> >>> > delete/destroy the
> >>>> > > original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper
> >>> > files.
> >>> >
> >>>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> >>> > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >>> > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
> >>> >
> >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle -
> >>> > http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE
> >>> > Twitter: duancechaos
> >>> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rex Brooks
> >> President, CEO
> >> Starbourne Communications Design
> >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> >> Berkeley, CA 94702
> >> Tel: 510-898-0670
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The information contained in this communication may be
> >> CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the
> >> recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended
> >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> >> distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its
> >> contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> >> communication in error, please notify the sender and
> >> delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from your
> >> computer or paper files.
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
> >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >>
> >>
>
--
An Excellent Credit Score is 750
See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
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