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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
I would agree with Rex - Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com> > To: "Thornton, Danny R (IS)" <Danny.Thornton@ngc.com> > Cc: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org, "Francis McCabe" <fmccabe@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:57:07 -0700 > > > Hi Everyone, > > I suggest we all review the Meeting Notes and Recording from last > week's session on Sept. 23, 2009. The action was pretty definite > about Section 1.2. After all our discussions up to 2:56 p.m. > Pacific Time on Friday, 9/25/09, per my admittedly unofficial poll > <http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives/200909/msg00094.html>, a thin consensus at that time favored making no mention of independent and/or composable services in the proposed additional paragraph in Section 1.2. I haven't seen sufficient change in the overall consensus to justify mention of such > services. > > Whether we also decline to add the remainder of the additional > paragraph is now unclear. Please recall that our discussion was > based on Frank's reply to Ken on Jun 14, 2009 at 7:12 p.m. Pacific > Time. > <http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives/200906/msg00012.html> > > To reiterate, my original pass at capturing our intent immediately > following the meeting was: > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary > between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely > own, govern and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns > must be accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes. > Business needs drive the development of services delivered through > IT, providing the capability that satisfies those needs. This is > the business value of SOA. " > > I would propose, after all of our discussions up to this point to > amend this to: > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary > between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely > own, govern and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns > must be accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes." > > I have so far consistently supported including some acceptable > refinement of the first version, but, lacking that I would still > prefer to have the introductory statement about the positioning of > our work between Business and IT. > > In other words, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. We > can revisit our discussions vis a vis a proper introductory mention > of how business needs drive the development of business services > and how IT services development support that or exist for their own > mechanical purposes after PR02 is released. The issue of > composability and/or aggregation as orchestrations and > choreographies could then be addressed in the way Dan suggests or > however else we decide. > > Cheers, > Rex > > Thornton, Danny R (IS) wrote: > >  > > I concur with Frank, composition or aggregation qualifications to > > service make for an odd discussion in section 1.2. Section 4.3.4, > > Composition of Services, addresses the topic for the RAF. The > > points about aggregation/composition could be weaved into section > > 4.3.4. > > Danny > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Francis McCabe [mailto:fmccabe@gmail.com] > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:48 AM > > *To:* Duane Nickull > > *Cc:* Mike Poulin; James Odell; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > > I need to repeat this a little louder I guess: IT DOES NOT WORK FOR ME > > > > This entire discussion around composition of services is (a) > > superficial and (b) beside the point in relation to the vast > > majority of the RAF. If we are going to take composition more > > seriously, then it MUST wait until after PR2. > > > > Frank > > On Sep 27, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Duane Nickull wrote: > > > >> Works for me. > >> > >> > >> On 9/27/09 11:30 AM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Yes, Duane, in general, no objections. > >> > >> However, do we need to define composition 'in general' in SOA RA > >> or primarily with respect to services? > >> > >> If the letter is our intention, let me 'trim' your definition in > >> this way: > >> > >> <<composition is a way to combine services into more complex > >> ones. The components or individual services, while part of the > >> whole, may exist independent of the whole.>> > >> > >> What do you think? > >> > >> – Michael > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com > >> <x-msg://15/dnickull@adobe.com>> > >> > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>>, "James Odell" > >> <email@jamesodell.com <x-msg://15/email@jamesodell.com>>, > >> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>" > >> <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>> > >> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >> [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >> > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:43:27 -0700 > >> > > >> > I am fine with it as long as we define it such as: > >> > > >> > composition is a way to combine services, objects or data types > >> > into more complex ones. The components, while part of the whole, > >> > may exist independent of the whole. > >> > > >> > Duane > >> > > >> > > >> > On 9/27/09 2:35 AM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>> wrote: > >> > > >> > In my mind, composition facilitates reuse. > >> > > >> > The next question in this row is 'what is reuse?' I define service > >> > reuse as the use of the service in the changed/new execution > >> > context; otherwise, it is just a multiple use of the service (i.e. > >> > exactly how the service was defined. This, BTW, leads to one more > >> > issue (a chain of reaction): the execution context description has > >> > to be a part of the Service Description, i.e. the service > >> > definition for the consumers) > >> > > >> > - Michael > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com > >> <x-msg://15/dnickull@adobe.com>> > >> > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>>, "James Odell" > >> > > <email@jamesodell.com <x-msg://15/email@jamesodell.com>>, > >> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>" > >> > > <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>> > >> > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >> > > [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >> > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:32:29 -0700 > >> > > > >> > > If this is the consensus, I am happy with this as long as we add a > >> > > glossary term to denote that the composition does not necessarily > >> > > preclude reuse (ie – independent lifecycles > >> for the parts). > >> > > > >> > > D > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On 9/26/09 2:54 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > I used term 'composite' only because this word has somehow become > >> > > commonly used but its sense is certainly 'aggregate'. > >> > > > >> > > I am happy with '...independent and aggregate services...' while, > >> > > IMO, 'composable' and 'independent' are not antonyms: and > >> > > independent service may be composed of other services. Aggregate, > >> > > in the contrast, is the service that depends on others. > >> > > > >> > > I remember related discussion about a year ago in one of the > >> > > Telecoms; I started to use the term 'aggregate' since that time > >> > > but was asked on several occasions what it meant. > >> > > > >> > > - Michael > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: "James Odell" <email@jamesodell.com > >> <x-msg://15/email@jamesodell.com>> > >> > > > To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>" > >> <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>> > >> > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > >> > > > [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >> business] > >> > > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:22:54 -0400 > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Additionally in UML ³composite aggregation², the > >> > > composite object has > >> > > > responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed > >> objects > >> > > > (parts). So can a composite service be thought of as having the > >> > > > responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed > >> objects > >> > > > (parts)? I would say yes ‹ but is this always > >> true? For > >> > > > example a Process > >> > > > Order service could defined as a SOAservice that has > >> > > responsibility for the > >> > > > existence for other first class services that are composed > >> (e.g., Accept > >> > > > order, Fill Order, Ship Order and Close Order). Here, the > >> cmpositing > >> > > > service could include service orchestration, as Duane suggests. > >> > > > On the other hand, Could I have a service that is a > >> ³taxonomic² > >> > > > aggregation. > >> > > > For example, a Process Payment service may simply consist of > >> > > various kinds > >> > > > of first class payment services, such as Cash Payment, Credit > >> > > Card Payment, > >> > > > Wire Transfer payment, etc). However, one could also argue > >> > > that event this > >> > > > could be thought of a composite, because it the > >> responsibiliy for the > >> > > > existence and storage of the composed services. However, > >> this may or may > >> > > > not nvolve orchestration ‹ only part whole. > >> > > > > >> > > > -Jim Odell > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On 9/25/09 6:14 PM, "Duane Nickull" indited: > >> > > > > >> > > > > Via Aggregation. Aggregation is a UML pattern whereby the > >> parts > >> > > > > are ³used² by > >> > > > > the whole. If th whole does not exist, the parts can exist > >> which is > >> > > > > necessary for re-use. Composition (by contrast) is a UML > >> > > > pattern whereby the > >> > > > > parts are ³part of² the whole, hence their > >> lifecycle is tied > >> > > > to the lifecycle > >> > > > > of the whole. When the whole ceases to exist, so do the parts, > >> > > > > hence making > >> > > > > ³reuse² not possible. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I think aggregation is a better term, however the press > >> and others have > >> > > > > already gone with ³service composition² as > >> a buzzword. > >> > > > Service Orchestration > >> > > > > is just as good as aggregation IMO. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Duane > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On 9/25/09 2:50 PM, "Lublinsky, Boris" > >> > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com > >> <x-msg://15/boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> If the services are not composable, then how are they better > >> > > compared to > >> > > > >> existing applications > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> --- original message --- > >> > > > >> From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starboune.com > >> <x-msg://15/rexb@starboune.com>> > >> > > > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday > >> > > [was: [soa-rm-r] > >> > > > >> positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > >> > > > >> Date: September 25, 2009 > >> > > > >> Time: 4:41:26 PM > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Duane, I'm picturing you tugging on Superman's cape, while > >> > > spittin' into > >> > > > >> the wind, tilting at windmills and messin' with Bad Bad > >> LeRoy Brown, > >> > > > >> while sliding into heaven sideways, brew in hand singing, > >> > > "What a Ride!" > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> You're right, and so is Frank, and I definitely prefer > >> "aggregate-able > >> > > > >> or capable of being included in various types of > >> aggregations,"... > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> but I think the boat already left, folks. We don't have to > >> > > catch up with > >> > > > >> it nor need we catch the next one. It will go as it will. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> I personally don't have strong enough feelings about it > >> to be road kill > >> > > > >> for it or against it. I happen to be involved in a set of > >> SOA services > >> > > > >> that absolutely MUST be composable, but I am satisfied that > >> > > they will be > >> > > > >> regardless of how this sentence in theSOA-RAF > >> introduction is worded. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> It makes it marginally easier for me to get the business > >> audiences I > >> > > > >> deal with to act right if "composable" services is something > >> > > I can point > >> > > > >> to when or if we get people insisting on something really > >> dumb, like > >> > > > >> "Point-to-Point" is the only distribution protocol that > >> counts," or "we > >> > > > >> can use the rules for RSS Feeds for all distribution." I > >> > > suppose its not > >> > > > >> impossible, but I don't really expect to see it. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> BTW, I don't read the sentence to ean that ALL > >> independent services > >> > > > >> MUST also be composable. It means " a network of > >> independent services > >> > > > >> and/or composable services." I think independent > >> composable services is > >> > > > >> almost a contradiction of erms or almost an oxymoron. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Cheers, > >> > > > >> Rex > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Duane Nickull wrote: > >> > > > >>> > My take on this: > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >> http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2007/09/soa-anti-patterns-service-compositio > >> > > > >>> n.html > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > D > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > On 9/25/9 1:21 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>> wrote: > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > I do not have any strong objections. > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > 'Composable' means to me that the service may be > >> composed; the > >> > > > >>> > question is - composed by what and how this corresponds to > >> > > > >>> > 'independent'? 'Composite' or 'aggregate' (as Ken > >> > > pointed once) is > >> > > > >>> > the service, which is composed already by other > >> services, which > >> > > > >>> > comprises other services, i.e. it is not independent. > >> > > This is what > >> > > > >>> > I tried to "EmFasis" :-) > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > You, folks, decide. > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > - Michael > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > >>>> > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" > >> <robert.ellinger@ngc.com <x-msg://15/robert.ellinger@ngc.com>> > >> > > > >>>> > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com > >> <x-msg://15/boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>>, "Mike > >> > > > >>> > Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>> > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > >> business] > >> > > > >>>> > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:34 -0500 > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > Mike, I like the sentence. Boris, I think that > >> "composable > >> > > > >>> > services" is > >> > > > >>>> > > the correct term. I've heard many "experts" and > >> > > > "gurus" use the > >> > > > term > >> > > > >>>> > > and concept since at least 2003 and seems to me to > >> put the > >> > > > >>> > "EmFasis on > >> > > > >>>> > > the rite Silobbal", as my dad would say. > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>> > > From: Lublinsky, Boris > >> [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] > >> > > > >>>> > > Sent: Friday,September 25, 2009 3:50 PM > >> > > > >>>> > > To: Mike Poulin; Ellinger, Robert S (IS); > >> Lublinsky, Boris; > >> > > > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > >> > > > and business] > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > Composable? > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>> > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >> > > > >>>> > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:27 PM > >> > > > >>>> > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; > >> Lublinsky, Boris; > >> > > > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > >> > > > and business] > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > Bob, > >> > > > >>>> > > this is the phrase: > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is > >> > > > a network of > >> > > > >>>> > > independent services, machines, the people who > >> > > operate, affect, > >> > > > >>> > use and > >> > > > >>>> > > govern those services as well as ... > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > I propose to say: "...a network of independent and > >> composite > >> > > > >>> > services, > >> > > > >>>> > > machines, the..." > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > - Michael > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > >>>>> > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" > >> <robert.ellinger@ngc.com <x-msg://15/robert.ellinger@ngc.com>> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>>, "Lublinsky, Boris" > >> > > > >>>> > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com > >> <x-msg://15/boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>>, > >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> > > > Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > >> > > > and business] > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:28 -0500 > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > There was one sentence that you sent that I could > >> > > > not make head > >> > > > or > >> > > > >>>> > > tail > >> > > > >>>>> > > > of as I noted. Otherwise, I hought I had > >> > > > incorporated all of > >> > > > your > >> > > > >>>>> > > > comments > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Bob > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>> > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:31 PM > >> > > > >>>>> > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; > >> > > Lublinsky, Boris; > >> > > > >>>>> > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> > > > Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > >> > > > and business] > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > I am afraid, I am lost. I do not see some of the > >> > > > >>>>> crucial changes > >> > > > I > >> > > > >>>>> > > > advocated for and you agreed to accommodate: > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must > >> > > > >>>>> be understood > >> > > > in > >> > > > >>>>> > > > terms of its support of business services." > >> > > > >>>>> > > > - MP - great! > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > "Business services provide business functionality > >> > > > in pursuit of > >> > > > >>>> > > business > >> > > > >>>>> > > > outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts > >> > > > >>>>> that facilitate > >> > > > >>>>> > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and > >> > > support the > >> > > > >>> > business > >> > > > >>>>> > > > services." > >> > > > >>>>> > > > - MP - my proposal: 'Business services provide > >> business > >> > > > >>> > functionality > >> > > > >>>> > > in > >> > > > >>>>> > > > pursuit of the business outcome; while IT > >> > > > artifacts facilitate > >> > > > >>>>> > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and > >> > > support the > >> > > > >>> > business > >> > > > >>>>> > > > services.' > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > "Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > >> > > > >>>>> Business, but is > >> > > > of > >> > > > >>>> > > both > >> > > > >>>>> > > > worlds." > >> > > > >>>>> > > > - MP - great! You commented: 'This doesn't make > >> > > > sense to me. It > >> > > > >>> > is not > >> > > > >>>>> > > > cnnected to SOA in anyway' but left the > >> > > statement. I am for > >> > > > having > >> > > > >>>> > >this > >> > > > >>>>> > > > statement as it is (it is not my text but very > >> > > right oe IMO) > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > "Neither Business nor IT completely own govern, > >> and manage > >> > > > >>> > this SOA > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Ecosystem. The SOA Eosystem must accommodate > >> both sets of > >> > > > concerns > >> > > > >>>> > > for > >> > > > >>>>> > > > t fulfill its purpose and potential." > >> > > > >>>>> > > > - MP - great! > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > "Business needs to drive the development of > >> > > > services delivered > >> > > > >>> > through > >> > > > >>>>> > > > processes and its supporting IT, which provides > >> > > > the capability > >> > > > that > >> > > > >>>>> > > > satisfies those needs. This is the business > >> value of SOA." > >> > > > >>>>> > > > - MP - development of services is not necessary > >> delivered > >> > > > through > >> > > > >>>>> > > > processes and supporting IT. This is why my > >> proposal is: > >> > > > >>>>> > > > 'Business needs to drive the development of > >> > > > services, which > >> > > > >>> > provides > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This > >> > > > is the business > >> > > > >>> > value > >> > > > >>>> > > of > >> > > > >>>>> > > > SOA.' > >> > > > >>>>> > > > or > >> > > > >>>>> > > > 'Business needs to drive the development of > >> > > > >>>>> services delivered > >> > > > >>>> > > through > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability > >> > > > that satisfies > >> > > > those > >> > > > >>>>> > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.' > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > (i.e. none Business or IT , or both; SOA is in > >> > > between them) > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Thus, my variant of the text looks like this: > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must > >> > > > be understood > >> > > > in > >> > > > >>>> > > terms > >> > > > >>>>> > > > of its support of business services. Business > >> > > > services provide > >> > > > >>>> > > business > >> > > > >>>>> > > > functionality in pursuit of the business > >> outcome; while IT > >> > > > >>> > artifacts > >> > > > >>>>> > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units to > >> realize and > >> > > > >>> > support the > >> > > > >>>>> > > > business services. Therefore, SOA is neither > >> wholly IT nor > >> > > > wholly > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business > >> > > > nor IT >>>>> > >> > > > completely > >> > > > >>>> > > own, > >> > > > >>>>> > > > govern, and manage this SOA Ecosystem. The SOA > >> > > > Ecosystem must > >> > > > >>>>> > > > accommodate both sets of concerns for to fulfill > >> > > > >>>>> its purpose and > >> > > > >>>>> > > > potential. Business needs to drive the > >> > > > development of services, > >> > > > >>> > which > >> > > > >>>>> > > > provides the capability that satisfies those > >> > > > needs. This is the > >> > > > >>>> > > business > >> > > > >>>>> > > > value of SOA. > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > - Michael > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" > >> > > <robert.ellinger@ngc.com <x-msg://15/robert.ellinger@ngc.com>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>>, "Lublinsky, Boris" > >> > > > >>>>> > > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com > >> <x-msg://15/boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>>, > >> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> > > > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>>> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > >> > > > >>>>> and business] > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:56:23 -0500 > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Try this. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Bob > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31 AM > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris; Mike Poulin; > >> > > > >>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> > > > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> between IT and > >> > > > business] > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Boris has reminded me one thing: in the > >> > > > paragraph following > >> > > > >>> > the two > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > paragraphs we are discussing now we say > >> > > > something like 'SOA > >> > > > is a > >> > > > >>>>> > > > network > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > of independent services...' I would modify > >> > > > this phrase a bit > >> > > > >>> > saying > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > something like 'SOA is a network of independent > >> > > > >>>>>> and composite > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > services...' > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Sorry, I did not mention this earlier. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > This is all what I wanted to say about SOA > >> and Buz. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > - Michael > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > From: "Lublinsky, Boris" > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > To: "Mike Poulin" , > >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> > > > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> between IT and > >> > > > business] > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:04:35 -0500 > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > I tend to agree with Mike/jeff > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > See below > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:15 AM > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > >> > > > >>>>>> Wednesday [was: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> between IT and > >> > > > business] > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Importance: High > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > I believe service orientation has the enormous > >> > > > potential to > >> > > > >>> > become > >> > > > >>>> > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > basic business operational model and SOA will be > >> > > > >>>>>> the basis of > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Business Architecture. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Since we do not have time for this > >> > > discussion now, let's > >> > > > >>> > return to > >> > > > >>>> > > our > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > text. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. Moreover, as I re read the text I am > >> > > > realizing more and > >> > > > more > >> > > > >>>> > > that > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > this is not so much about SOA but mostly about > >> > > > ESB. I am of > >> > > > >>> > course > >> > > > >>>>> > > > over > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > simplifying, but hopefully you got the jest. > >> > > > We managed to > >> > > > >>> > leap frog > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > business architecture and servicizing the > >> > > > >>>>>> enterprise and jump > >> > > > >>>> > > directly > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > into the issues of service interaction - > >> > > > ecosystem. This is > >> > > > fine, > >> > > > >>>> > > but > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > who is going to live in this wonderful ecosystem. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > The only thing I hope to set in the RA > >> > > > standard is an open > >> > > > >>> > door to > >> > > > >>>> > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Business opportunity of SOA instead of > >> > > locking it in IT. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > This means I vote for enough 'ambiguity' in > >> > > the text that > >> > > > would > >> > > > >>>> > > allow > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > anybody to go with SOA in both - technical > >> > > and business - > >> > > > >>>> > > directions, > >> > > > >>>>> > > > if > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > needed. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. Fair enough. Lets create the door, but > >> > > > may be, just may > >> > > > >>> > be open > >> > > > >>>>> > > > it > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > up slightly for the next review. This is why > >> > > I think, the > >> > > > >>> > text under > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > discussion, does not belong in the > >> > > ecosystem, but rather > >> > > > >>> > above it. > >> > > > >>>> > > We > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > talk about business/IT alignment and then > >> > > > define ecosystem > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > The following is my modifications to the text > >> > > > that together > >> > > > >>> > aim only > >> > > > >>>>> > > > one > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > statement: "SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > >> > > > >>>>>> Business, but > >> > > > >>> > is of > >> > > > >>>>> > > > both > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > worlds." Particularly: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > a) I agree in full with: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > < > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > components and subsystems. They must be > >> > > understood within > >> > > > their > >> > > > >>>>> > > > context > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > or environment; particularly, when there are many > >> > > > >>> > interactions among > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a > >> > > > >>>>>> self-sustaining > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > association of plants, animals, and the > >> > > > physical environment > >> > > > in > >> > > > >>>> > > which > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > they live. Understanding an ecosystem often > >> > > requires this > >> > > > >>> > holistic > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > perspective of the system and its environment > >> > > > >>>>>> rather than one > >> > > > >>>> > > focusing > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > on the system's individual parts.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > b) I DISagree with << The SOA Ecosystem > >> > > described in this > >> > > > >>> > document > >> > > > >>>>> > > > must > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > be understood in terms of its support of > >> > > > business services, > >> > > > >>> > which is > >> > > > >>>>> > > > its > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > environment.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is this: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > << The SOA Ecosystem described in this > >> document must be > >> > > > >>> > understood > >> > > > >>>> > > in > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > terms of its support of business services.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. See comment above > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > c) I DISagree with << Business services > >> > > provide business > >> > > > >>>> > > functionality > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > in pursuit of the business outcome; while SOA > >> services > >> > > > provide IT > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > artifacts that facilitate connectivity of > >> > > > >>>>>> functional units to > >> > > > >>>> > > realize > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > and support the business services. Therefore, > >> > > > SOA is neither > >> > > > >>> > wholly > >> > > > >>>> > > IT > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > nor wholly Business, but is of both worlds. >> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is this: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > < > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > outcome, together with its technical > >> > > > realization and support > >> > > > >>>> > > provided > >> > > > >>>>> > > > by > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Information Technology. Therefore, SOA is > >> > > > neither wholly IT > >> > > > nor > >> > > > >>>> > > wholly > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Business, but is of both worlds.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > B.L. How about: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > << SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > >> > > > Business, but is of > >> > > > both > >> > > > >>>>> > > > worlds. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Without involvement of the business, defining > >> service > >> > > > >>> > functionality > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > based on the enterprise business model and > >> > > > aligned with the > >> > > > >>>> > > enterprise > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > business processes, SOA can't fulfill the > >> promise of > >> > > > business/IT > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > alignment and support for flexible, > >> process-driven > >> > > > enterprise. > >> > > > >>>> > > Without > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > involvement of IT, implementing SOA > >> > > ecosystem, supporting > >> > > > >>> > flexible > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > service deployment, interactions, monitoring > >> > > > and management > >> > > > SOA > >> > > > >>>> > > can't > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > fulfill the promise of scalable, maintainable > >> IT.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > d) I DISagree with << Business needs drive the > >> > > > >>>>>> development of > >> > > > >>>> > > services > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > delivered through IT, which provides the > >> > > capability that > >> > > > >>> > satisfies > >> > > > >>>>> > > > those > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > My proposal is: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > << Business needs to drive the development of > >> > > > >>>>>> services, which > >> > > > >>>> > > provides > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. > >> This is the > >> > > > business > >> > > > >>>> > > value > >> > > > >>>>> > > > of > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > SOA.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > or > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > << Business needs to drive the development of > >> services > >> > > > delivered > >> > > > >>>>> > > > through > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability > >> > > > >>>>>> that satisfies > >> > > > >>> > those > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Regards, > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > - Michael > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" To: "Mike > >> Poulin" , > >> > > > "Lublinsky, > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Boris" > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > , rexb@starbourne.com > >> <x-msg://15/rexb@starbourne.com> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , > >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >> > > > for Wednesday > >> > > > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> between IT and > >> > > > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:30:41 -0500 > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Mike: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > We are trying to get to the same concept, > >> > > > but really what > >> > > > >>> > is being > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > discussed is a cultural paradigm shift. In > >> > > > my view, the > >> > > > >>> > execution > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > context is the technical context within > >> > > > which the service > >> > > > >>>> > > components > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > exist and within in which they are executed > >> > > > as enablers > >> > > > and > >> > > > >>>> > > support > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > for > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > the process. The service components are > >> > > the parts and > >> > > > >>>> > > subassemblies. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > The process flow, which is part of the > >> > > > execution context, > >> > > > as > >> > > > >>>> > > defined > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > by > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > the orchestration or choreography (both > >> > > of which have > >> > > > business > >> > > > >>>> > > rules > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > engines to ensure that > >> policies/standards/business > >> > > > >>> > rules/etc. are > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > followed). > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Business process modeling as instantiated by > >> > > > >>>>>>> the assembled > >> > > > >>> > of the > >> > > > >>>>> > > > SOA > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > service components, with the associated > >> > > business rule, > >> > > > >>> > links the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > system > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > to the business processes. Provided that > >> > > the business > >> > > > processes > >> > > > >>>>> > > > serve > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > the goals or objectives or the business > >> > > > (that is provides > >> > > > >>> > value to > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > business) then the tools as instantiated > >> in the SOA > >> > > > service > >> > > > >>>>> > > > multiplies > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > the effectiveness of the process. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > The cultural shift involves the fact that > >> > > > when business > >> > > > >>> > challenges > >> > > > >>>>> > > > or > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > opportunities arise, the business > >> processes and SOA > >> > > > supporting > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > services > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > can meet those challenge because SOA enable > >> > > > >>>>>>> agile systems. > >> > > > I > >> > > > >>>> > > define > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > agility as "successful response to > >> > > > unexpected challenges > >> > > > and > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > opportunities." BTW, this is the definition > >> > > > >>>>>>> of the Agility > >> > > > >>> > Forum > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > (circa > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > 1990) associated with Lehigh University (that > >> > > > >>>>>>> is Nagel and > >> > > > his > >> > > > >>>> > > group > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > that wrote the book on the agile > >> > > > enterprise). Currently, > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > monolithic > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > architecture of most ERP-like systems do > >> not allow > >> > > > agility, > >> > > > >>> > while > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > functional architecture place emphasis on > >> > > > optimizing for > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>> > > > function; > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > creating silos. There is an axiom in > >> > > > Systems Engineering > >> > > > that > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > optimizing the subsystems, sub-optimizes > >> > > > the system. SOA > >> > > > >>> > enables > >> > > > >>>>> > > > both > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > optimization and agility of the system, > >> but requires > >> > > > mapping of > >> > > > >>>> > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > system to the organization's processes as > >> the price > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I could and have said a great deal more, > >> > > > but I think that > >> > > > is > >> > > > >>>> > > enough. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > The linkage is there for anyone to get the > >> > > > maximum value > >> > > > out of > >> > > > >>>> > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > SOA > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > and both the business processes and the > >> composite > >> > > > applications > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > (process > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > assembled service components???) or > >> > > > whatever operating in > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > execution > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > context, must enable and support the > >> > > processes. As the > >> > > > >>> > processes > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > change > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > in response to challenges and > >> > > opportunities, both the > >> > > > processes > >> > > > >>>> > > and > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > composite application must respond quickly and > >> > > > >>> > successfully. This > >> > > > >>>> > > is > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > not the way it is done now, and that is > >> the cultural > >> > > > change > >> > > > >>> > that > >> > > > >>>> > > is > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > needed. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 PM > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris; > >> > > > >>> > rexb@starbourne.com <x-msg://15/rexb@starbourne.com> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > >> > > > >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >> > > > for Wednesday > >> > > > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> > > between IT and > >> > > > >>> > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Robert, > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > as we know SOA defines Execution Context. > >> > > > Since we never > >> > > > >>> > defined > >> > > > >>>>> > > > what > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > it > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > includes, I suggest (and promote this > >> > > opinion) that EC > >> > > > includes > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Business > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > EC and Technical EC. Business services > >> > > cannot be 'the > >> > > > >>> > environment > >> > > > >>>> > > of > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA Ecosystem' because it is included into > >> > > > SOA. Business > >> > > > EC > >> > > > >>>> > > defines > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > business execution policies and Technical > >> EC defines > >> > > > technical > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > execution > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > policies. SOA Ecosystem comprises both > >> business and > >> > > > technical > >> > > > >>>>> > > > realms. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Phrase "while SOA services provide IT > >> artifacts that > >> > > > facilitate > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > connectivity of functional units to realize > >> > > > and support > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>> > > business > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > services."" has a problem because SOA > >> > > service does not > >> > > > >>> > necessary > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > "facilitate connectivity of functional > >> units". For > >> > > > instance,a > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > self-contained stand-alone business > >> > > technical service > >> > > > >>> > realises its > >> > > > >>>>> > > > own > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > business function or feature w/o joining > >> with other > >> > > > "functional > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > units". > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Plus, SOA Service may or may not contain any > >> > > > >>>>>>> IT artefacts. > >> > > > Time > >> > > > >>>> > > when > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > SOA > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > was considered a pure technical thing is > >> > > gone (and for > >> > > > good). > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I agree with you on "The value of IT is the > >> > > > same as any > >> > > > other > >> > > > >>>> > > tool". > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > This is why I think that statement " > >> > > > Business needs drive > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > development of services delivered through > >> IT, which > >> > > > >>> > provides the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > capability that satisfies those needs. > >> This is the > >> > > > business > >> > > > >>> > value > >> > > > >>>> > > of > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA" requires corrections. Development of > >> > > > services is not > >> > > > >>>> > > necessary > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > delivered through IT, it may be purely > >> > > manual business > >> > > > >>> > service and > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > many > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > services of such nature exist. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Based on my discussion in several Business > >> > > > Architecture > >> > > > >>> > groups on > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Web, any business process in Business may > >> > > > be defined as > >> > > > >>> > business > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > service > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > with or without technical component. > >> > > > >>>>>>> Implementation of the > >> > > > >>>> > > business > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > service, as we know, is not that important for > >> > > > >>>>>>> service-oriented > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Architecture. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > If we state that SOA positions BETWEEN > >> > > > >>>>>>> Business and IT, we > >> > > > >>> > MAY NOT > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > attribute it to IT only and confront it > >> > > > with the business > >> > > > >>> > service. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > This > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > is illogical. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > - Michael > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , > >> rexb@starbourne.com <x-msg://15/rexb@starbourne.com> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>, > >> > > > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >> > > > for Wednesday > >> > > > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> > > between IT and > >> > > > >>> > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:49 -0500 > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > See below > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Lublinsky, Boris > >> > > > >>>>>>> [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); > >> rexb@starbourne.com <x-msg://15/rexb@starbourne.com>; > >> > > > >>> > Lublinsky, Boris > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > >> > > > >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >> > > > for Wednesday > >> > > > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> > > between IT and > >> > > > >>> > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I have no idea what this means: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this > >> > > document must be > >> > > > >>> > understood > >> > > > >>>> > > in > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > terms of its support of business services, > >> > > > which is its > >> > > > >>>>> > > > environment." > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > What is which environment? > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Business services are the environment of > >> the SOA > >> > > > Ecosystem. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Also: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > " Business services provide business > >> > > functionality in > >> > > > >>> > pursuit of > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > business outcome; while SOA services > >> > > > provide IT artifacts > >> > > > that > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units > >> > > > >>>>>>> to realize and > >> > > > >>> > support > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > business services." > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > SOA services is a complete misnomer. > >> > > > Infrastructure I can > >> > > > >>> > buy, but > >> > > > >>>>> > > > SOA > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > services? > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I disagree with that. The infrastructure > >> > > > provides nothing > >> > > > >>> > except > >> > > > >>>> > > an > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > operating context. Only when SOA Service > >> > > (which in my > >> > > > >>>> > > understanding > >> > > > >>>>> > > > is > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > a composite application with contractual > >> > > obligations) > >> > > > >>> > provide any > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > value > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > to the customer. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > And finally: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > " Business needs drive the development of > >> services > >> > > > delivered > >> > > > >>>> > > through > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > IT, > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > which provides the capability that > >> > > > satisfies those needs. > >> > > > >>> > This is > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > business value of SOA." > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > This has several problems: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > 1. Business is concerned only with business > >> > > > services and > >> > > > drives > >> > > > >>>>> > > > their > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > design, not development 2. What is the > >> > > business value? > >> > > > What > >> > > > >>> > does > >> > > > >>>>> > > > this > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > points to? > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > My understanding of the term development > >> is that it > >> > > > includes > >> > > > >>>> > > design, > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > but > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > if you want to change it...The value of IT > >> > > > is the same as > >> > > > any > >> > > > >>>> > > other > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > tool, to multiple the value of the process. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Adam Smith pointed this out in Chapter 1 of > >> > > > Book 1 of the > >> > > > >>> > Wealth > >> > > > >>>> > > of > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Nations. This is a point lost on IT as > >> this comment > >> > > > >>> > demonstrates. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I think we are digressing. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I hope not. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > >> > > > >>>>>>> [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:46 AM > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: rexb@starbourne.com > >> <x-msg://15/rexb@starbourne.com>; Lublinsky, Boris > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > >> > > > >>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >> > > > for Wednesday > >> > > > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> > > between IT and > >> > > > >>> > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Hi: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Please try this edit. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Bob > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 AM > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; > >> > > > >>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >> > > > for Wednesday > >> > > > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> > > between IT and > >> > > > >>> > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Very minor grammar correction, Boris, > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > I'm just a nit picker. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > ;) > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Rex > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I haven't seen people discussing my > >> > > grammar so much > >> > > > >>> > lately. I am > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > doing > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > something wrong sorry. > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I am fine with managing > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > From: Rex Brooks > >> [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken; > >> > > > >>>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >> > > > >>>>>>>> for Wednesday > >> > > > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > >> > > > between IT and > >> > > > >>> > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Hi Folks, > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I'm being technically challenged at > >> > > the moment with > >> > > > remote > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > participation > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > in overlapping meetings the latter of > >> which isn't > >> > > > starting > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > and > > the former of which appears to have > >> > > > >>>>>> ended early while > >> > > > I > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > dropped > > off to attend the latter.Sheseh! > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Here's how I would correct Boris's > >> > > grammar with one > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > word-substitution: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > I > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > don't want the concept of > >> "orchestration" being > >> > > > confused with > >> > > > >>>> > > the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > use > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > of > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > "orchestrating" so I am changing that > >> > > to "managing" > >> > > > which we > >> > > > >>>> > > don't > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > spend > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just > >> > > > >>>>>>>> want to avoid > >> > > > >>> > anyone > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > asking > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > if > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > we mean that "all business services must > >> > > > be delivered > >> > > > via > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > orchestration."): > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Business drives the definition of > >> > > business services > >> > > > aligned > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > with > enterprise business functionality > >> > > and business > >> > > > >>>>> > > > processes, > > > managing execution of these > >> > > > services, while IT > >> > > > >>>>> > > > defines > > > infrastructure services, > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > providing support across a wide range > >> of business > >> > > > services > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > and > > implements both types of services. Such > >> > > > >>>>>> collaboration > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > allows > > stronger communications between both, > >> > > > by creating > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > one-to-one > > mapping between business and IT > >> artifacts. > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did > >> > > > >>>>>>>> not actually > >> > > > >>>>> > > > pick > up > > Boris's additions and so didn't drop > >> > > > >>>>> them, and Ken > >> > > > >>>>> > > > had one > more > > addition he was considering, > >> > > > >>>>> could we ask Ken > >> > > > >>>>> > > > to correct > > Boris's > grammar, fold in Bob's > >> > > > >>>>> slight rewording > >> > > > >>>>> > > > and add his > > piece? Then, > perhaps Jeff > >> > > and/or Jim could > >> > > > make > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the crisp > > differentiation > between business > >> > > > services and > >> > > > SOA > >> > > > >>>>> > > > services or > > between business > services and IT > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > services > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Cheers, > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Rex > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Didn't intend to drop Boris's > >> > > additions...must of > >> > > > missed > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > them. > I >> thought we were to start from where > >> > > > you left off, > >> > > > so > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > that is > >> what I > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > did. > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working > >> > > > concurrently > >> > > > and the > >> > > > >>>>> > > > material > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > crossed. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Bob > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> From: Rex Brooks > >> [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 > >> 1:10 AM > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> To: Lublinsky, Boris > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; > >> > > > mpoulin@usa.com <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro > >> discussion for > >> > > > Wednesday > >> > > > >>> > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the > >> > > > cusp between IT > >> > > > and > >> > > > >>>> > > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> My task was to get the work rolling. > >> > > I have minor > >> > > > >>> > quibbles with > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > correct > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> English grammar in Boris's > >> > > additions, and I agree > >> > > > with > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Jeff > > that >> the distinction between > >> > > > "business service' and > >> > > > >>>>> > > > "SOA > > service" >> needs to be made. In > >> general I think > >> > > > simpler > >> > > > >>>>> > > > is > > better, but as >> long as the grammar is > >> > > > corrected, I'd > >> > > > be > >> > > > >>>>> > > > fine > > with Boris's >> additions. I don't have > >> > > > any problems > >> > > > >>>>> > > > with Bob's > > minor rewording, >> but i don't > >> see why he > >> > > > dropped > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Boris's > > additions.. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> I'll look at it again in the morning. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Cheers, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Rex > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> You through away all changes that > >> > > > were suggested > >> > > > after this > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > initial > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> one? > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > >> > > > >>> > [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 > >> 6:41 PM > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > >> <x-msg://15/rexb@starbourne.com> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > >> > > > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro > >> discussion for > >> > > > Wednesday > >> > > > >>> > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the > >> > > > cusp between IT > >> > > > and > >> > > > >>>> > > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording... > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original > >> > > > >>>> > > Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From: Rex Brooks > >> [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 > >> 1:16 PM > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > >> <x-msg://15/rexb@starbourne.com> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com>; > >> > > > >>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro > >> discussion for > >> > > > Wednesday > >> > > > >>> > [was: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the > >> > > > cusp between IT > >> > > > and > >> > > > >>>> > > business] > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as > >> > > an additional > >> > > > paragraph > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > after >>> the first paragraph. I include > >> the first > >> > > > paragraph > >> > > > >>>>> > > > and > > the >>> start of the current second > >> > > > paragraph here for > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > > context: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - > >> > > An Ecosystem > >> > > > Perspective > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Many systems cannot be understood > >> by a simple > >> > > > decomposition > >> > > > >>>> > > into > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > parts > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and subsystems -- in particular when > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> there are many > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > interactions between the parts. For example, a > >> > > > >>>>>> biological >>> > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > ecosystem is a self-sustaining association of > >> plants, > >> > > > animals, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and the hysical environment in > >> > > which they live. > >> > > > >>>>> > > > Undestanding > > an >>> ecosystem often > >> > > requires a holistic > >> > > > >>>>> > > > perspective rather > > than one >>> focusing on the > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> system's individual parts. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this > >> document > >> > > > occupies the > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>> > boundary between Business and IT. > >> > > It is neither > >> > > > wholly IT > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > nor >>> > wholly Business, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither > >> > > Business nor IT > >> > > > >>> > completely own, > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > govern > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both > >> sets of > >> > > > concerns must > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > be > >>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to > >> > > > fulfill its > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > purposes. > >>> Business > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> needs drive the development of > >> > > > services delivered > >> > > > through > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > IT, > >>> providing the capability that > >> satisfies those > >> > > > needs. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > This is > >>> the business value of SOA. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> From a holistic perspective, a > >> > > > SOA-based system is > >> > > > a > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > network > of >>> independent services, machines, > >> > > > the people who > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > operate, > affect, >>> use and govern those > >> > > > services as well as > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > ... > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Cheers, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex Brooks wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Hi Ken, Everyone, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> I believe that the email you are > >> > > > looking for is > >> > > > your > >> > > > >>> > reply to > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Frank: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> / > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> 200906/msg00012.html > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, > >> > > > 2009, at 7:12 > >> > > > PM: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment > >> > > > behind this. We > >> > > > have > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>> > > consistently identified SOA as > >> being at the > >> > > > boundary > >> > > > >>>>> > > > between > >>>> > business and IT. It > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> is > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly > >> > > > business but is of > >> > > > both > >> > > > >>> > worlds. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> That represents potentially one of > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> SOA's greatest > >> > > > >>>>> > > > opportunities; > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > and > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> the source of its weaknesses: > >> > > > neither business > >> > > > nor IT can > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > completely > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> own/grok SOA. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Frank" > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> The email referenced above > >> > > > contains the most or > >> > > > all of the > >> > > > >>>>> > > > thread > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > "Are > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> we being ignored?" > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> I'm not sure we would help > >> > > > ourselves if we say > >> > > > more than > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > "The >>>> SOA Ecosystem described in this > >> document > >> > > > occupies > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > > boundary >>>> between Business and IT. > >> > > It is neither > >> > > > >>>>> > > > wholly IT > > nor wholly >>>> Business, but is > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> of both worlds. Neither Business > >> nor IT > >> > > > completely own, > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > govern >>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. > >> > > > Both sets of > >> > > > >>>>> > > > concerns > > MUST be > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > accommodated > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill > >> > > > its purposes." > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Cheers, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Rex > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> Laskey, Ken wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> This is a reminder that this > >> week we are > >> > > > scheduled to > >> > > > >>>> > > discuss > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > adding > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA > >> > > > and business. > >> > > > Below is > >> > > > >>> > text > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > suggested > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is > >> > > > another email > >> > > > from > >> > > > >>> > Boris with > >> > > > >>>> > > a > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > lot > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> idea that would need to be > >> condensed and > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > added/substituted/combined. > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Let's get the discussion far > >> > > > enough along that > >> > > > we can > >> > > > >>> > bring > >> > > > >>>>> > > > this > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > to > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> (close to) closure by the end of > >> > > > Wednesday's > >> > > > call. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I remember there was an email > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> where Frank wrote > >> > > > something > >> > > > >>>> > > very > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > crisp > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> on this subject that I replied was > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> exactly what > >> > > > we > >> > > > >>> > needed to > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > say. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea > >> > > > when that email > >> > > > thread > >> > > > >>>> > > occurred. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > If > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> someone could find it, I think > >> > > > it would be a > >> > > > good > >> > > > >>>> > > contribution > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > to > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> discussion. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, > >> > > > two immediate > >> > > > things > >> > > > >>> > come to > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > mind. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> the views and > >> > > > this > >> > > > >>> > is not > >> > > > >>>> > > a > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > view > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> to > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it > >> fits after > >> > > > section 1.2, > >> > > > >>>> > > possibly > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > as > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> another short section. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> the phrase "the > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > similarity > of >>>>> the principles of the > >> > > Value Networks > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > business model" > means. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Ken > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ------ > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 703-983-7934 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 703-983-1379 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com> > >> > > > [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > >> > > > Sent: > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>> > Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:31 AM > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> To: > >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] > >> > > positioning SOA on the > >> > > > cusp > >> > > > >>> > between IT > >> > > > >>>>> > > > and > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > business > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I join Francis and Boris in > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> suggestion that SOA > >> > > > RA's > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > Introduction > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> would benefit from adding a > >> couple of > >> > > > paragraphs on the > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> business aspects of SOA > >> positioned across > >> > > > Business and > >> > > > >>>>> > > > IT. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> In the previous message I > >> > > > composed a few words > >> > > > for a > >> > > > >>> > small > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > section > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> on > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> this topic and propose to > >> > > > discuss them as an > >> > > > initial > >> > > > >>> > draft > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > during > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> next (or following) Telecom. > >> > > > Proposed text may > >> > > > be > >> > > > >>> > found in > >> > > > >>>> > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > middle > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of this message chain. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Any suggestions? > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - Michael > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com > >> <x-msg://15/mpoulin@usa.com> To: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >> > > > >>>> > > Date: > >> > > > >>>>> > > > 8 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > Sep > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp > >> > > between IT and > >> > > > business" is > >> > > > >>>> > > what > >> > > > >>>>> > > > I > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > write > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> me propose a > >> > > > >>> > strawman for > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > this > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> text: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the > >> > > > Service Oriented > >> > > > Architecture > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture > >> realizes > >> > > > principles > >> > > > >>> > of the > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > concept > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> of > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> service orientation in the > >> sphere of > >> > > > architecture. The > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > architecture > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> in the organisation comprises > >> > > both business > >> > > > >>>>> > > > architecture > > and >>>>> technical architecture > >> > > > >>>>> of the systems > >> > > > >>>>> > > > [ref. to TOGAF > > 9.0]. >>>>> While SOA-based > >> > > > systems address > >> > > > >>>>> > > > aspects of the > > technical >>>>> architecture, > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> similarity of the principles of > >> the Value > >> > > > Networks > >> > > > >>> > business > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > model > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > and > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conceptual bridge > >> > > > between > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> corporate Business and IT. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new > >> > > > possibilities > >> > > > for > >> > > > >>> > Business > >> > > > >>>> > > and > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > IT > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > to > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> construct service-oriented > >> > > customer-centric > >> > > > convergent > >> > > > >>>>> > > > solutions > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > for > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> business problems. Service > >> > > > orientation enables > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > operational > >>>>> and technical flexibility, > >> > > > >>>>> which contributes > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > to business > >>>>> efficiency the > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> great deal. The Service > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Orientation concept has > >> > > > the > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > potential >>>>> not only to align IT with > >> > > > Business, but also to > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > align the >>>>> entire > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > company > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> with the market dynamics. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> If the ideas in this writing are > >> > > > acceptable, I > >> > > > will > >> > > > >>> > work on > >> > > > >>>>> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> wording. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - Michael Poulin > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> From: Francis McCabe To: > >> > > > >>> > "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> <x-msg://15/soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> RA" > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 > >> -0700 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think > >> that a > >> > > > paragraph or two > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > in > >>>>> the introduction positioning SOA > >> on the cusp > >> > > > between > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > IT and > >>>>> business could be very > >> > > useful. It is also > >> > > > pretty > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > faithful > to >>>>> the RAF! > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 2. The concept of interaction > >> in the RM > >> > > > referred > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > *everything* >>>>> involved in interacting with > >> > > > services. For > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > RA we have to > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > unpack > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> that some. This is the > >> foundation for the > >> > > > multi-leveled > >> > > > >>>>> > > > concept > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > of > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> joint action. This should go in > >> > > > Section 3.1. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> diagram should > >> > > > be > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > updated > >>>>> and incorporated. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 4. The trust and willingness > >> > > > stuff should go > >> > > > in. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> 5. It would be good if we could > >> > > > go through the > >> > > > text > >> > > > >>> > bolding > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > defined > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> concepts. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ----------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | > >> > > > [Thread Next] | > >> > > > [Date > >> > > > >>> > Next] -- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > [Date > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List > >> Home] > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> -- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Rex Brooks > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> President, CEO > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Starbourne Communications Design > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Berkeley, CA 94702 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> Tel: 510-898-0670 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> - To unsubscribe from this mail > >> > > list, you must > >> > > > leave the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > OASIS >>> TC that generates this mail. Follow > >> > > > >>>>>>> this link to > >> > > > >>>>> > > > all > > your TCs >>> in OASIS > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> at: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> The information contained in this > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> communication may > >> > > > be > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > CONFIDENTIAL > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> and is intended only for the use of > >> > > > the recipient(s) > >> > > > named > >> > > > >>>> > > above. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > If > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> you are not the intended recipient, > >> > > > you are hereby > >> > > > >>>>> > > > notified > > that >> any dissemination, > >> > > > >>>>> distribution, or copying > >> > > > >>>>> > > > of this >> > > communication, or any > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > of > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> its contents, is strictly > >> > > prohibited. If you have > >> > > > received > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > this >> communication in error, please > >> > > > notify the sender > >> > > > and > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >> > > delete/destroy > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> original message and any copy of it > >> from your > >> > > > computer > >> > > > >>> > or paper > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > files. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> -- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Rex Brooks > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> President, CEO > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Starbourne Communications Design > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Berkeley, CA 94702 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> Tel: 510-898-0670 > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, > >> > > > you must leave > >> > > > the > >> > > > >>>>> > > > OASIS > > TC >> that generates this mail. Follow > >> > > > this link to > >> > > > all > >> > > > >>>>> > > > your > TCs > in >> OASIS at: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> p > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Rex Brooks > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > President, CEO > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Starbourne Communications Design > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94702 > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > Tel: 510-898-0670 > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > The information contained in this > >> > > communication may be > >> > > > >>>> > > CONFIDENTIAL > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > and > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > is intended only for the use of the > >> > > recipient(s) named > >> > > > >>> > above. If > >> > > > >>>> > > you > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > are not the intended recipient, you are > >> > > > hereby notified > >> > > > >>> > that any > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of > >> this > >> > > > >>> > communication, or > >> > > > >>>>> > > > any > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > of > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you > >> > > > >>>>>>> have received > >> > > > this > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > communication in error, please notify the > >> sender and > >> > > > >>>> > > delete/destroy > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > the > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > original message and any copy of it from > >> > > > your computer or > >> > > > paper > >> > > > >>>>> > > > files. > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you > >> > > must leave the > >> > > > OASIS TC > >> > > > >>>> > > that > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to > >> > > > all your TCs in > >> > > > >>> > OASIS at: > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > -- > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >> treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% > >> > >> <http://treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5%> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > 20> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > -- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must > >> > > > leave the OASIS > >> > > > >>> > TC that > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all > >> > > your TCs in > >> > > > >>> > OASIS at: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > The information contained in this > >> communication may be > >> > > > >>> > CONFIDENTIAL > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > and is intended only for the use of the > >> > > > recipient(s) named > >> > > > above. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, you > >> are hereby > >> > > > >>> > notified that > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > any dissemination, distribution, or copying > >> of this > >> > > > >>> > communication, > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > or any of its contents, is strictly > >> > > > prohibited. If you have > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > received this communication in error, please > >> notify the > >> > > > >>> > sender and > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > delete/destroy the original message and any > >> > > > copy of it from > >> > > > your > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > computer or paper files. > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must > >> > > > leave the OASIS > >> > > > >>> > TC that > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all > >> > > your TCs in > >> > > > >>> > OASIS at: > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > -- > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >> <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.freecredi > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >> treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% > >> > >> <http://treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5%> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > 20> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > << bus and tech 2.doc >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > -- > >> > > > >>>>> > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >> > > > >>>>> > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>>>> > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must > >> > > > leave the OASIS TC > >> > > > >>> > that > >> > > > >>>>> > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all > >> > > > your TCs in OASIS > >> > > > at: > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > -- > >> > > > >>>> > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >> > > > >>>> > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>>> > > The information contained in this communication may be > >> > > > >>> > CONFIDENTIAL and > >> > > > >>>> > > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) > >> > > > named above. If > >> > > > you > >> > > > >>>> > > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > >> > > > notified that any > >> > > > >>>> > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > >> > > > communication, or > >> > > > >>> > any of > >> > > > >>>> > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >> > > > received this > >> > > > >>>> > > communication in error, please notify the sender and > >> > > > >>> > delete/destroy the > >> > > > >>>> > > original message and any copy of it from your > >> > > computer or paper > >> > > > >>> > files. > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > -- > >> > > > >>> > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >> > > > >>> > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >>> > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > >> > > > OASIS TC that > >> > > > >>> > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs > >> > > > in OASIS at: > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > -- > >> > > > >>> > Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle > >> Bundle - > >> > > > >>> > http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE > >> > > > >>> > Twitter: duancechaos > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> -- > >> > > > >> Rex Brooks > >> > > > >> President, CEO > >> > > > >> Starbourne Communications Design > >> > > > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > >> > > > >> Berkeley, CA 94702 > >> > > > >> Tel: 510-898-0670 > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> The information contained in this communication may be > >> > > > >> CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the > >> > > > >> recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended > >> > > > >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > >> > > > >> distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its > >> > > > >> contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > >> > > > >> communication in error, please notify the sender and > >> > > > >> delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it > >> from your > >> > > > >> computer or paper files. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > >> OASIS TC that > >> > > > >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in > >> OASIS at: > >> > > > >> > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > >> > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > >> TC that > >> > > generates this mail. 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