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Subject: Re: Definition of Reference Model (Was RE: [soa-rm] Definition of"Service Consumer")
Joseph: We should not re-define what a reference model is. The term has industry accepted connotations. A Reference Model is NOT implement able directly. It does not include the necessary level of detail to build anything with other than architecture. If it did, then by definition it would not be a reference model. A reference model is also not restrictive by nature. You may add more things to the core set as you require them. Your email does bring up an interesting and recurring theme however. Perhaps in addition to a reference model, it would be useful to deliver a user guide/framework for development. We may have to consider at least a separate FAQ or similar as we progress. I do suspect however, that most software architects understand how to use a RM. There will also be plenty of opportunity to build architecture in this TC as a Sub TC. I had a request yesterday for a group to start a Sub TC within this TC to concentrate on a concrete architecture for a very specific field, using the SOA RM as their guide. I hope that we have at least 2-3 of these as time goes on. Other comments inline: Chiusano Joseph wrote: >This definition does not state that only "mandatory" concepts are >included, but rather implies it through its reference to "a small number >of unifying concepts". I recommend that at this point, since our >definition of "reference model" is being used as a filter for everything >- and so many things are (perhaps justifiably!) being "kicked out" of it >- we gain consensus on what we believe "reference model" means. > If something is not a unifying concept for all things SOA, it should not be in the RM however this does raise the chicken and egg question. How do we determine if something is SOA before the RM is complete? There is no quantitative way to determine if something is or isn't SOA. Accordingly, the types of discussions we are having are very healthy IMO. I enjoy the fact that we have all types of opinions on this list to consider. >I bring this up because I have seen cases where reference models are not >as restrictive as the one that we are heading toward (but maybe they >should be?). I am also (frankly) concerned that we might be developing >something that is - and I don't mean this in a pejorative sense - too >"academic" and not implementable in real-world settings. > A RM by definition is abstract, therefor you may correctly imply "academic". It is very useful to those who develop architecture. >I also wonder if it might be more valuable process-wise to concentrate >on concrete architectures, and then determine from among those concrete >architectures what concepts are mandatory, what are optional etc. - that >is, to build our reference model from outward-in, instead of the >opposite which I believe is our current process. > > This is what we have been and should continue to do. We are scouring all things claiming to be or perceived to be SOA and trying to determine what are the common elements in those, how to describe them in an abstract manner and what the relationships amongst those things are. Duane >Thoughts? > >Joe > >Joseph Chiusano >Booz Allen Hamilton >Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] >>Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 9:02 PM >>To: Matthew MacKenzie >>Cc: 'Frank McCabe'; Duane Nickull; >>soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; vikas@sonoasystems.com; Chiusano >>Joseph; 'Andrew Nash' >>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Definition of "Service Consumer" >> >>Let's leave this as an open issue, if we may. Except for a >>very simple, very closed system, I cannot imagine a viable >>SOA in a real environment without security. I am willing to >>be educated about situations where security can legitimately >>be skipped, but I don't think it can be left out of a useful RM. >> >>Ken >> >>On Apr 11, 2005, at 3:32 PM, Matthew MacKenzie wrote: >> >> >> >>>I don't believe that all SOAs do or will have security. I think we >>>should simply not mention it. This is, after all, an abstract >>>reference model. We can produce the warmNfuzzy that having >>> >>> >>a security >> >> >>>component adds in our own SOA designs that are identifiable >>> >>> >>with the >> >> >>>SOA-RM. >>> >>>-matt >>> >>>On 11-Apr-05, at 12:28 PM, Duane Nickull wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Ken: >>>> >>>>I am not 100% sure about this. I would like to research this on a >>>>more philosophical basis. Not all SOA's use explicit security >>>>protocols (the internet doesn't). The fundamental philosophical >>>>question may be " does the explicit statement conveying >>>> >>>> >>the absence >> >> >>>>of any security still imply a security model"? >>>> >>>>The danger in saying "yes" is that it opens the door for more >>>>"things" to be part of the RM. >>>> >>>>I would like to mull this over and do some research. I am >>>> >>>> >>sure Matt >> >> >>>>has a good answer ;-) >>>> >>>>Duane >>>> >>>>Ken Laskey wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Moreover, the question is whether all SOAs SHOULD have >>>>> >>>>> >>security and >> >> >>>>>whether that needs to be captured in the RM. As noted, >>>>> >>>>> >>secuirty is >> >> >>>>>often just tacked on and that may not be sufficient for >>>>> >>>>> >>*any* SOA to >> >> >>>>>be successful. >>>>> >>>>>Ken >>>>> >>>>>At 02:27 PM 4/11/2005, Duane Nickull wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>The RM does not support security models. A reference >>>>>> >>>>>> >>model is used >> >> >>>>>>to guide the design of architecture that may include specific >>>>>>security protocols or models. Our requirement must be to ensure >>>>>>that nothing we place in the RM makes any specific >>>>>> >>>>>> >>security model a >> >> >>>>>>requirement (since not all SOA's have security) and to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>ensure that >> >> >>>>>>we do not preclude a specific type of security model from being >>>>>>used. >>>>>>Duane >>>>>> >>>>>>Vikas Deolaliker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I think the question should be how many different types of >>>>>>>security models will this RM support? >>>>>>>Vikas >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>*********** >>>>>>Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - >>>>>>http://www.adobe.com Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - >>>>>>http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Adobe Enterprise Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>Resources >> >> >>>>>>- http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html >>>>>>*********** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>- >>>>>------------ >>>>> / Ken Laskey >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> \ >>>>> | MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934 | >>>>> | 7515 Colshire Drive fax: >>>>> >>>>> >>703-883-1379 >> >> >>>>> | >>>>> \ McLean VA 22102-7508 >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> / >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>- >>>>>------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>*********** >>>>Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - >>>>http://www.adobe.com Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - >>>>http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Adobe Enterprise Developer >>>> >>>> >>Resources - >> >> >>>>http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html >>>>*********** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------- >>---------- >>------------------ >>Ken Laskey >>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934 >>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-883-1379 >>McLean VA 22102-7508 >> >> >> >> > > > -- *********** Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - http://www.adobe.com Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources - http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html ***********
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