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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model InYour SOA - Best Practices"
+1 John Harby wrote: >IMHO, SOA should really be defined independent of data model and a >general definition of SOA should support any strategy employable by >data tiers. Defining the notion of data model really seems out of >scope to me. > >On 5/6/05, Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> wrote: > > >>These are very interesting thoughts - I like the term "SOA data model". Can >>you please clarify further what the difference between a "SOA data model" >>and a "canonical data model" would be? (since I believe "SOA data model" may >>now be a newly coined term) >> >>Joe >> >> >> >>Joseph Chiusano >> >>Booz Allen Hamilton >> >>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com >> >>________________________________ >>From: Vikas Deolaliker [mailto:vikas@sonoasystems.com] >>Sent: Fri 5/6/2005 12:37 PM >>To: Chiusano Joseph; 'Frank McCabe'; 'Ken Laskey' >>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org >>Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In >>Your SOA - Best Practices" >> >> >> >> >>The problem with "canonical data model" is that it does not scale with time. >>Eventually it will not canonicalize but constrain the richness of >>communication that is expected among various SOA entities. >> >> >> >>IMHO SOA data mode should aim to define (a) the interfaces used by SOA >>entities to exchange information, (b) mechanisms to discover these >>interfaces and (c) mechanisms to negotiate a vocabulary/format for data >>exchange over these discovered interfaces. >> >> >> >> >> >>Vikas >> >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> >> >>From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com] >>Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 9:23 AM >>To: Frank McCabe; Ken Laskey >>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org >>Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In >>Your SOA - Best Practices" >> >> >> >> >>I think some additional context may not have been provided below. While the >>article does state "This article does not discuss how to integrate data >>models", it is stated in the context of "this article will not get into this >>topic because it is either out of scope or too complex to discuss". >> >> >> >> >> >>The author is actually a strong proponent of having an integrated data >>model, as they depict an integrated data model as one of the layers of their >>approach. I interpret this as a "canonical data model", which is a special >>type of data model used for data exchange. >> >> >> >> >> >>Joe >> >> >> >> >> >>Joseph Chiusano >> >>Booz Allen Hamilton >> >>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> >> >>From: Frank McCabe [mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com] >>Sent: Fri 5/6/2005 12:03 PM >>To: Ken Laskey >>Cc: Chiusano Joseph; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org >>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In >>Your SOA - Best Practices" >> >> >>+1 >>Frank >> >> >>On May 6, 2005, at 8:45 AM, Ken Laskey wrote: >> >> >> >>>The critical line in this article is >>> >>>This article does not discuss how to integrate data models. >>> >>>Its premise is the tried (and usually failed) that if we all get >>>into a room and be reasonable we can all find a common vocabulary >>>to map to. I could go on about when that works and when that >>>doesn't (see my OASIS Symposium presentation for more) but if that >>>is the basis of SOA, then it will go no further than any other >>>integration paradigm. The driving question is how do you create a >>>system (service?) to do semantic negotiation between diverse >>>vocabularies in a way that is (1) visible, (2) reusable, and (3) >>>allows you to use what you know (or can find) in ways that enables >>>you to do more with little or no effort. >>> >>>The SOA RM will not specify how this is done but it must also not >>>codify an interchange vocabulary paradigm that will not scale. >>> >>>End of rant:-) >>> >>>Ken >>> >>> >>>On May 6, 2005, at 10:32 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Forwarding a good recent SOA piece[1] for those interested in >>>>reading it. Covers the notion of an integrated data model as a >>>>foundational concept; also presents a 6-layer approach to SOA >>>>(about mid-article). >>>> >>>>Joe >>>> >>>>[1] http://www.tdan.com/i032ht02.htm >>>> >>>> >>>>Joseph Chiusano >>>> >>>>Booz Allen Hamilton >>>> >>>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>-------------------- >>>Ken Laskey >>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >>>McLean VA 22102-7508 >>> >>>*** note change of phone extension from 883 to 983 effective >>>4/15/2005 *** >>> >>> >>> >>On May 6, 2005, at 8:45 AM, Ken Laskey wrote: >> >> >> >>>The critical line in this article is >>> >>>This article does not discuss how to integrate data models. >>> >>>Its premise is the tried (and usually failed) that if we all get >>>into a room and be reasonable we can all find a common vocabulary >>>to map to. I could go on about when that works and when that >>>doesn't (see my OASIS Symposium presentation for more) but if that >>>is the basis of SOA, then it will go no further than any other >>>integration paradigm. The driving question is how do you create a >>>system (service?) to do semantic negotiation between diverse >>>vocabularies in a way that is (1) visible, (2) reusable, and (3) >>>allows you to use what you know (or can find) in ways that enables >>>you to do more with little or no effort. >>> >>>The SOA RM will not specify how this is done but it must also not >>>codify an interchange vocabulary paradigm that will not scale. >>> >>>End of rant:-) >>> >>>Ken >>> >>> >>>On May 6, 2005, at 10:32 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Forwarding a good recent SOA piece[1] for those interested in >>>>reading it. Covers the notion of an integrated data model as a >>>>foundational concept; also presents a 6-layer approach to SOA >>>>(about mid-article). >>>> >>>>Joe >>>> >>>>[1] http://www.tdan.com/i032ht02.htm >>>> >>>> >>>>Joseph Chiusano >>>> >>>>Booz Allen Hamilton >>>> >>>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>-------------------- >>>Ken Laskey >>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >>>McLean VA 22102-7508 >>> >>>*** note change of phone extension from 883 to 983 effective >>>4/15/2005 *** >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- Mark Little Chief Architect Arjuna Technologies Ltd (www.arjuna.com)
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