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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In Your SOA - Best Practices"
IMHO, SOA should really be defined independent of data model and a general definition of SOA should support any strategy employable by data tiers. Defining the notion of data model really seems out of scope to me. On 5/6/05, Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> wrote: > > These are very interesting thoughts - I like the term "SOA data model". Can > you please clarify further what the difference between a "SOA data model" > and a "canonical data model" would be? (since I believe "SOA data model" may > now be a newly coined term) > > Joe > > > > Joseph Chiusano > > Booz Allen Hamilton > > Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > > ________________________________ > From: Vikas Deolaliker [mailto:vikas@sonoasystems.com] > Sent: Fri 5/6/2005 12:37 PM > To: Chiusano Joseph; 'Frank McCabe'; 'Ken Laskey' > Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In > Your SOA - Best Practices" > > > > > The problem with "canonical data model" is that it does not scale with time. > Eventually it will not canonicalize but constrain the richness of > communication that is expected among various SOA entities. > > > > IMHO SOA data mode should aim to define (a) the interfaces used by SOA > entities to exchange information, (b) mechanisms to discover these > interfaces and (c) mechanisms to negotiate a vocabulary/format for data > exchange over these discovered interfaces. > > > > > > Vikas > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com] > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 9:23 AM > To: Frank McCabe; Ken Laskey > Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In > Your SOA - Best Practices" > > > > > I think some additional context may not have been provided below. While the > article does state "This article does not discuss how to integrate data > models", it is stated in the context of "this article will not get into this > topic because it is either out of scope or too complex to discuss". > > > > > > The author is actually a strong proponent of having an integrated data > model, as they depict an integrated data model as one of the layers of their > approach. I interpret this as a "canonical data model", which is a special > type of data model used for data exchange. > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > Joseph Chiusano > > Booz Allen Hamilton > > Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Frank McCabe [mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com] > Sent: Fri 5/6/2005 12:03 PM > To: Ken Laskey > Cc: Chiusano Joseph; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Good Recent SOA Piece: "Managing an XML Data Model In > Your SOA - Best Practices" > > > +1 > Frank > > > On May 6, 2005, at 8:45 AM, Ken Laskey wrote: > > > The critical line in this article is > > > > This article does not discuss how to integrate data models. > > > > Its premise is the tried (and usually failed) that if we all get > > into a room and be reasonable we can all find a common vocabulary > > to map to. I could go on about when that works and when that > > doesn't (see my OASIS Symposium presentation for more) but if that > > is the basis of SOA, then it will go no further than any other > > integration paradigm. The driving question is how do you create a > > system (service?) to do semantic negotiation between diverse > > vocabularies in a way that is (1) visible, (2) reusable, and (3) > > allows you to use what you know (or can find) in ways that enables > > you to do more with little or no effort. > > > > The SOA RM will not specify how this is done but it must also not > > codify an interchange vocabulary paradigm that will not scale. > > > > End of rant:-) > > > > Ken > > > > > > On May 6, 2005, at 10:32 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote: > > > > > >> Forwarding a good recent SOA piece[1] for those interested in > >> reading it. Covers the notion of an integrated data model as a > >> foundational concept; also presents a 6-layer approach to SOA > >> (about mid-article). > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> [1] http://www.tdan.com/i032ht02.htm > >> > >> > >> Joseph Chiusano > >> > >> Booz Allen Hamilton > >> > >> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > >> > >> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------- > > Ken Laskey > > MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 > > 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 > > McLean VA 22102-7508 > > > > *** note change of phone extension from 883 to 983 effective > > 4/15/2005 *** > > > > > On May 6, 2005, at 8:45 AM, Ken Laskey wrote: > > > The critical line in this article is > > > > This article does not discuss how to integrate data models. > > > > Its premise is the tried (and usually failed) that if we all get > > into a room and be reasonable we can all find a common vocabulary > > to map to. I could go on about when that works and when that > > doesn't (see my OASIS Symposium presentation for more) but if that > > is the basis of SOA, then it will go no further than any other > > integration paradigm. The driving question is how do you create a > > system (service?) to do semantic negotiation between diverse > > vocabularies in a way that is (1) visible, (2) reusable, and (3) > > allows you to use what you know (or can find) in ways that enables > > you to do more with little or no effort. > > > > The SOA RM will not specify how this is done but it must also not > > codify an interchange vocabulary paradigm that will not scale. > > > > End of rant:-) > > > > Ken > > > > > > On May 6, 2005, at 10:32 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote: > > > > > >> Forwarding a good recent SOA piece[1] for those interested in > >> reading it. Covers the notion of an integrated data model as a > >> foundational concept; also presents a 6-layer approach to SOA > >> (about mid-article). > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> [1] http://www.tdan.com/i032ht02.htm > >> > >> > >> Joseph Chiusano > >> > >> Booz Allen Hamilton > >> > >> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > >> > >> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------- > > Ken Laskey > > MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 > > 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 > > McLean VA 22102-7508 > > > > *** note change of phone extension from 883 to 983 effective > > 4/15/2005 *** > > > >
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