[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Definition(s) of "service"
Depends on what we mean by "integration" - looking back at the messages below, I don't believe that the notion of a service "containing the integration" makes logical sense, as a service is "integrated" with another service and therefore the "integration" really exists "external" to the service. Joe Joseph Chiusano Booz Allen Hamilton O: 703-902-6923 C: 202-251-0731 Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > -----Original Message----- > From: John Harby [mailto:jharby@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:49 PM > To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Definition(s) of "service" > > Why does the service need to contain the integration? I would > see it as the other way around. I would think many services > should be able to run standalone with no integration > knowledge whatsoever. > > On 8/4/05, Ken Laskey <klaskey@mitre.org> wrote: > > The service is the container for the integration if the > integration is > > simple or the access to integration instructions (e.g. > > orchestration/choreography) if the integration is more complex. > > > > Ken > > > > At 11:47 AM 8/4/2005, John Harby wrote: > > >But what responsibility should the service have in this "bringing > > >together of the parts"? > > >I would be very concerned about levying too much responsibility on > > >the service for the integration. > > > > > >On 8/4/05, Ken Laskey <klaskey@mitre.org> wrote: > > > > Somehow saying service *provides* capabilities misses the SOA > > > > motivation to provide an effective way to bring > together the parts > > > > I need to solve a problem. Integration is often of disparate > > > > parts that exist for their own purposes. Service can help > > > > coordinate but the challenge is to make use of the > > > > tools/resources/capabilities that already exist, not to > create new > > > > stovepipes. Saying the service provides all this is a tempting > > > > simplification but I fear it will trivialize the > concepts most in need of clarification. > > > > > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > At 10:35 AM 8/4/2005, Chiusano Joseph wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:18 AM > > > > > > To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Definition(s) of "service" > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd still like to emphasize service as the access to > > > > > > capabilities for which there are extra-service > motivations for > > > > > > their existence and requirements for use of the > capabilities > > > > > > that must be navigated by the service. Thus, > > > > > > > > > > > > "A service is a mechanism to enable access to a set of > > > > > > capabilities, > > > > > > > > > >I would say that access control mechanisms enable such access, > > > > >and that the service *provides* the capabilities. > Note: Use of "access control" > > > > >is too concrete for our RM - I stated it only to > illustrate the point. > > > > > > > > > >Joe > > > > > > > > > >Joseph Chiusano > > > > >Booz Allen Hamilton > > > > >O: 703-902-6923 > > > > >C: 202-251-0731 > > > > >Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > > > > > > > > > > > where the access is provided using a prescribed > interface and > > > > > > is exercised consistent with constraints and policies as > > > > > > specified by the service description." > > > > > > > > > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > At 11:15 PM 8/3/2005, joe@pantella.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Just trying to sort through this; some common themes that > > > > > > >seem to be > > > > > > >acceptable: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >A service provides capabilities. > > > > > > >A service is accessible. (If this is true, then service > > > > > > >cannot be a > > > > > > >verb.) A service has an interface. (If this is true, then a > > > > > > service has > > > > > > >a boundary.) A service interface is prescribed. (Then a > > > > > > service and its > > > > > > >interface are distinct, and the interface has associated > > > > > > >rules. I'm not sure this is true, the interface > may describe > > > > > > >the rules, > > > > > > but Im not > > > > > > >sure it has rules. In fact, I'm inclined to suggest that > > > > > > the interface > > > > > > >defines the rules for accessing the service. Which would > > > > > > >lead me to suggest that the service interface is > more than a > > > > > > specification of the > > > > > > >data model, but also of the policies associated with the > > > > > > >service.) A service is a set of behaviors. (Not > sure I'm on > > > > > > >board with this, something about behaviors doesn't > sit well.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Given this, perhaps something like: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"A service is a bounded set of capabilities that are > > > > > > accessible through > > > > > > >a prescribed interface." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- JJP > > > > > > > > > > > > > >P.S. I think this definition might just be flexible enough > > > > > > to navigate > > > > > > >the service offer/contract discussion also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > > >From: Schuldt, Ron L [mailto:ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com] > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:32 PM > > > > > > >To: Frank McCabe; SOA-RM > > > > > > >Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Definition(s) of "service" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Frank, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >While I believe that the previously proposed definition is > > > > > > sufficient, > > > > > > >I offer the following as a compromise. Hopefully, > the notion > > > > > > >of "capabilities" addresses your issue of needing > to get things done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"A service is a set of behaviors to provide capabilities > > > > > > accessible via > > > > > > >a prescribed interface." > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > > >From: Frank McCabe [mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com] > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:10 AM > > > > > > >To: SOA-RM > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Definition(s) of "service" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I hesitate to spoil this party ... but I'm going to :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >1. There is a distinction between action and result. (Just > > > > > > >ask any > > > > > > >roboticist) Behaviour sounds a child misbehaving with no > > > > > > >discernible effect. Computer Scientists have a tendency to > > > > > > >focus on the purely technical aspects of their work: bytes > > > > > > >shuffling around at random within hopefully > enormous memories. > > > > > > >2. Also, we have to bear in mind that nobody invests > > > > > > millions of $s (or > > > > > > >even 100's of them) in systems that contemplate > their navels > > > > > > or have no > > > > > > >business payoff. I think that we have to directly > address the > > > > > > >reason that services are deployed. > > > > > > >3. One of the movitating best practice aspects of SOAs is > > > > > > that clarity > > > > > > >and 'separation' between the providers of services and the > > > > > > consumers of > > > > > > >services leads to more scalable and robust architectures. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >All of the above is fuzzy language; but, at the same time, > > > > > > "A service > > > > > > >is a set of behaviors accessible via a prescribed > interface." > > > > > > >sounds a lot like bureauspeak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I believe that there is strong consensus on the following > > > > > > >characteristics: > > > > > > >a. The concept of service is 'at the boundary' between > > > > > > >service providers and consumers. > > > > > > >b. The service is 'there' to get things done; but doesn't > > > > > > itself denote > > > > > > >the engine that performs the tasks. > > > > > > >c. There is a reason for using a service. > > > > > > >d. There is a lot of extra metalogical information about > > > > > > services that > > > > > > >make it possible for third parties to develop > partners for services. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I, for one, would prefer a strongly anglo-saxon > phrasing of > > > > > > >the definition of service that speaks to these points. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Frank > > > > > > >ti > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------- > > > > > > / Ken > > > > > > Laskey > > > > > > \ > > > > > > | MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: > 703-983-7934 | > > > > > > | 7515 Colshire Drive fax: > > > > > > 703-983-1379 | > > > > > > \ McLean VA 22102-7508 > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------- > > > > / Ken > > > > Laskey > \ > > > > | MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 | > > > > | 7515 Colshire Drive fax: > 703-983-1379 | > > > > \ McLean VA 22102-7508 > / > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > > / Ken > > Laskey > \ > > | MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 | > > | 7515 Colshire Drive fax: > 703-983-1379 | > > \ McLean VA 22102-7508 > / > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------ > > > > > > > > >
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]