OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

soa-rm message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Policies and Contracts - notes for currrently posted document


Martin, Duane, Michael:
  For the most part, the specific policy frameworks in WS-Policy etc.  
are too close to the metal for the RA work.
  We are almost as abstract as the RM itself; our focus has been on  
different concerns: what it takes to use a SOA, build a SOA and own a  
SOA.
  So, we take a similar approach to policy frameworks as the RM: but  
we should be a bit more directed in where policies show up and the  
kind of machinery needed to use/build/own policy systems.
Frank

On Feb 19, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Duane Nickull wrote:

> Martin:
>
> In general, I favor using the WS-Policy and WS-PolicyAttachment  
> abstract
> models for the RA.  There is no place to link them to the RM  
> explicitly
> given the abstract nature of the RM but the RA should probably  
> reflect the
> capabilities of those works.
>
> Note that the WS-Policy stuff is used in many WS-* specs including  
> WS-RX and
> SX.
>
> Duane
>
>
> On 2/19/07 12:03 PM, "Smith, Martin" <Martin.Smith@DHS.GOV> wrote:
>
>> Michael --
>>
>> A good discussion --thanks.  It gave rise to a couple of thoughts:
>>
>> 1.  Contracts are (typically) private between buyer and seller.  
>> Except that
>> the contracts have to be made available to third parties (courts,  
>> arbitrators)
>> for dispute resolution and enforcement.  I wonder if contract  
>> "instances" are
>> a property of services at all.
>> 2.  "Internal" policies are private to an organization (or  
>> individual, if you
>> like), and represent documented guidelines for doing business and/ 
>> or goals,
>> presumably subject to waiver or revision via internal decision  
>> processes. I
>> don't see that they are of any particular relevance to the external
>> (observable) behavior of a service.  And maybe not to the RA.
>> 3.  "External" (advertised) policies are really just a starting  
>> offer to the
>> public in negotiation of a contract. The car dealer may have a  
>> "policy" of a
>> maximum 10% discount for cash, but the salesman's invisible  
>> manager can
>> probably cut a deal if it's the end of the month.
>> 4.  There seem to be several OASIS (and other) activities dealing  
>> with
>> policies and contracts. We should try to figure out if we are  
>> doing anything
>> special in SOA-RM that requires a distinct language, or which of  
>> the other
>> efforts is best suited to RA needs.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> Martin F. Smith
>> Program Manager, Information Sharing & Identity Management
>> DHS CIO Office
>> 202 447-3743 (New! as of 10/2006)
>> 202 441-9731 cell
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: soa-rm-return-310-martin.smith=dhs.gov@lists.oasis-open.org  
>> on behalf of
>> michael.poulin@uk.fid-intl.com
>> Sent: Mon 2/19/2007 2:22 PM
>> To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: [soa-rm] Policies and Contracts - notes for currrently  
>> posted
>> document
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> unfortunately, I will not be able to participate in the next  
>> telcon (28 Feb.)
>> but would like to offer a few comments for the Policies and  
>> Contracts doc
>> posted under
>> TheArchitecture/ServiceView/PoliciesAndContracts
>> This is a long message but, I think, it is better to discuss it  
>> first and then
>> publish in Wiki.
>>
>> In Section 1 - Policies and Contracts  relationships between  
>> policies,
>> contracts and service description is contradictive to some degree.  
>> In one
>> place, the doc says:
>> "Policies and contracts may be associated with a service through  
>> the service
>> description as defined in the visibility section of the RA  
>> architecture." In
>> another place, the Visibility Section requires that the service  
>> description
>> and policy  or at least a suitable subset thereof  be  
>> available..., that is
>> Policy may exist outside of the description.
>>
>> If we accept the first statement, we can say that service  
>> description may
>> contain only policy(ies) or only contract. However, Service  
>> Contract is the
>> agreement between service provider and concrete service consumer.  
>> Since a SOA
>> service exists independently from consumers, there should be a  
>> form of
>> description, which does not contain a contract, and, from another  
>> hand, if a
>> contract with a consumer exists, it has either to refer to the  
>> service
>> description (and policies) or include it (and policies).
>>
>> Thus, the relationships I would like to propose are:
>> 1)      Service Description is a self-contained and consistent  
>> entity which
>> describes different aspects of the SOA service (for the sake of  
>> logic here, I
>> have postponed the description of these aspects)
>> 2)      If a service provider exposes any number of policies onto  
>> the service
>> consumers for particular SOA service, all such policies are
>> available/accessible/referenced via the Service Description only
>> 3)      For each service consumer, a Service Contract is  
>> identified. The
>> Contract contains references to a subset of applied providers  
>> policies, as
>> well as functional, operational, and run-time characteristics  
>> listed in the
>> Service Description  all adopted to particular consumers needs.  
>> Plus, the
>> Contract includes and/or references to all policies exposed by the  
>> consumer
>> onto the service provider. There may be one Contract for many  
>> consumers or
>> each consumer may have individual Contract.
>>
>> Finally, a Service Description should include:
>> 1)      business and/or programmatic interfaces that may be  
>> exposed to the
>> consumer; the  Service Contract lists only those interfaces that  
>> are agreed
>> upon with particular consumer
>> 2)      service versions that may be exposed to the consumer; the   
>> Service
>> Contract includes only those versions that are agreed upon with  
>> particular
>> consumer
>> 3)      Policies applied by service provider
>> 4)      Service behavior characteristics in normal conditions
>> A Service Contract may include:
>> 1)  Policies required by service consumer
>> 2)  agreed QoS characteristics  performance expectations (expected  
>> response
>> time, throughput, etc.), scalability, failover, error handling and  
>> alerts,
>> business (process) exceptions (different from technical  
>> exceptions), pre-known
>> conditions (like delivery schedule)
>> 3)      service priority  different for different categories of  
>> the customers
>> 4)      additional provider obligations to the consumer(s)
>>
>>
>> In Section 1.1 -  Policy/Contract Language  A policy and/or  
>> contract language
>> is defined by a policy/contract language model.
>> I suggest the contract language model has to encapsulate policy  
>> language
>> model.
>>
>>
>> In Section 1.2 - Mechanisms Supporting Policies and Contracts  The  
>> common
>> policy architectural elements that are provided in this section  
>> are based on
>> the minimal mechanisms required to provide policy guided delivery  
>> across
>> distributed services within an ownership domain and between  
>> ownership domains.
>> The same mechanisms can provide compliance assurance and/or  
>> auditing of
>> contractual obligations between participants.
>> I would agree with this if ALL elements/entries of the Contract are
>> represented in the form of a policy. Otherwise, the statement is  
>> argumentive.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Michael Poulin
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> **********************************************************
> Sr. Technical Evangelist - Adobe Systems, Inc.           *
> Chair - OASIS SOA Reference Model Technical Committee    *
> Blog: http://technoracle.blogspot.com                    *
> Music: http://www.mix2r.com/audio/by/artist/duane_nickull*
> **********************************************************
>



[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]