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Subject: TAG TC 2010-03-30 Meeting Minutes
Test Assertions Guidelines (TAG) TC Teleconference Meeting
30 March 2009
Draft minutes from combined notes of Jacques and Dennis
Logistics:
----------
Tuesday 2pm (PDT), 21:00Z, 30 March 2009
Host confcall: Fujitsu
US Toll Free: 877-995-3314
US Toll/International: 210-339-1806
Passcode: 9589308
Attendance and Quorum
---------------------
MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE
4/5 Voting Members attending: 3/5 requirement for quorum was satisfied
* Jacques Durand, Chair (Fujitsu)
* Dennis Hamilton, Secretary (Individual)
* Kevin Looney, (Sun)
* Paul Rank, (Sun)
[*: Voting member at start and conclusion of the meeting]
MEMBERS ABSENT
* Tim Boland (NIST)
Dale Moberg, (Axway Software)
Hyunbo Cho, (Pohang University of Science & Technology)
Dmitry Kostovarov, (Sun)
Victor Rudometov, (Sun)
Patrick Curran, (Sun) Leave of Absence
[*: Voting member at start and conclusion of the meeting]
APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MINUTES
The 2010-02-16 minutes were approved without objection
< http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tag/201002/msg00077.html>
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was approved without objection
< http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tag/201003/msg00003.html>
1- administrative matters: meeting notes approval, and need for a new
secretary (Dennis is interested).
2- comments (both external and internal) on the PR drafts currently under
review.
3- promoting TAG work: venues, ideas, liaisons to other SDOs
4- update on "tamelizer" the test engine for XPath extension of TAML.
5- future roadmap and standardization track(s) for TAG.
ACTION ITEMS
AI1-Mar30: [Jacques] follow-up with Dave P. on his comments, to make sure we
address them correctly.
AI2-Mar30: [Jacques] Follow-up with Mary to add Dennis as new secretary,
give access rights.
AI3-Mar30: [Jacques] Contact W3C test team to remind them of PR , calling
for comments.
AI4-Mar30: [Kevin] Contact Oracle internally to confirm they know about the
PR (folks who
contacted him)
AI5-Mar30: [Dennis] Investigate RDF possible representation for the TA
Model. (ontologies / OWL?)
1. ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS
Dennis has offered to be the Secretary for the TAG TC. His offer was
accepted without objection.
ACTION (AI2-Mar30): Jacques will notify the TC administrator for
whatever activation is required.
2. COMMENTS RECEIVED SO FAR ON THE PUBLIC REVIEW (ending 2010-05-09)
In informal discussion of Dave Pawson's comments, we agreed that the
TAML specification should have a table that matches elements and tags to
provisions of the model, and the model should offer semantics.
All of the semantics the user is looking for should be in the model. We
agree that we should have a mapping.
Jacques observed that the Model is itself a little light on semantics,
perhaps because we are so familiar with the guidelines. We need to examine
the Guidelines and the Model to see what should be expressed in the model to
have sufficient semantics in the Model.
ACTION (AI1-Mar30): Jacques will follow up with Dave Pawson to confirm
that we are thinking along lines that address his concerns.
With regard to observations on TAG-comment from Stephen Green, Jacques
is optimistic that the UBI work being discussed can all be done by test
assertions.
We talked about cultivating additional reviews. Kevin reported that
others at Oracle/Sun have the information.
ACTION (AI4-Mar30): Kevin to follow-up with Oracle internally to confirm
that the Public Review is known.
ACTION (AI3-Mar30): Jacques to make direct contact with the group in W3C
who is doing their own test assertions. These seem to be complementary with
TAG and we would like their review of the Guidelines, Model, and TAML.
3. PROMOTING TAG WORK
Jacques discussed promoting OASIS use of Test Assertions and changes
that are coming in the OASIS procedures. He expects the policy and
guidelines to emphasize test assertions.
4. REPORT ON TAMELIZER
This external project implements TAML extended with XPath capability.
The next version is ready and will be more complete and friendlier. Jacques
is waiting for a permission to use some material so that it can be packaged
with a proper public license. This will provide an operational test engine
for TAML and qualify as an implementation of TAML.
The XPath extension to TAML is called TAML-X. The specification draft
will be submitted somewhere.
5. FUTURE ROADMAP AND STANDARDIZATION TRACK(S) FOR TAG
The handling of Dave Pawson's comments should lead to new Committee Drafts
and a second Public Review. This could be as short as 15 days.
After we obtain a public review without comments involving substantive
change, we can make final drafts for approval as Committee Specifications.
If the next Public Review starts by the end of May and doesn't require
further Public Review, we can foresee having a ballot for Committee
Specifications before July 1.
After that, we can go into maintenance mode on the specifications and gather
what is needed to submit the Model and TAML to OASIS for approval as OASIS
Standards in the month of August. Later, after satisfying the necessary
interoperability demonstrations, the Model and TAML, perhaps the Guidelines,
could be submitted to ISO. It is not clear what ISO TC and SC would be the
appropriate venue.
With regard to the requirements for three independent implementations (of
TAML and of the Model), Jacques thinks we need to carefully review the
conformance clause of the TA Model.
We ended this discussion with speculations on what would be three
implementations of the model and what would qualify as three implementations
of TAML. Since TAML counts as one implementation of the model, and the
semi-formal tabular notation used in the Guidelines counts as another, we
wondered what would qualify as a third.
Jacques mentioned the SCA TA document and WS-I usage, as well as Tamelizer
markup as qualifying as cases of independent use. For TAML WS-I tools and
tamelizer count. Something else just using the markup is needed, perhaps
the UBL work from Stephen Green.
Dennis thought that a third case for the Model might be one that involves
RDF for identifying/carrying the occurrence of textual information that
constitutes test assertions in XML-based documents. Dennis has a colleague
who might be interested in exploring the RDF aspects of this case.
ACTION (AI5-Mar30): Dennis contact his colleague and inform him of the
Public Review and possible exercise in application of RDF. Dennis also
wants to get deeper into RDF application of this.
*** ACTION: All - continue this discussion on the list.
FUTURE MEETINGS
The next call will be 2010-04-27.
Respectfully submitted,
- Dennis Hamilton
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