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Subject: RE: [topicmaps-comment] Notions have existence .....
| Certainly it makes sense to say that physical things exist independently of
| human mind / perception / cognition but they are physical things not
| insubstantial / noncorporeal mentalisations/thoughts.
Question: Do vacuums (in space, not the Hoover variety) exist? Or the
distance between two point?
I suspect they do--if anything does independently of a mind--yet they are
not physical things (are they?) These are really more like notions, e.g.,
the notion that there exists no physical things in a volume of space is
we refer to as a "vacuum".
The question of existence impendent of any mind is a tricky, and most
entertaining idea. Over the years, I've come to the non-committal
opinion that either everything or nothing exists independently of a
mind. When it comes right down to it, we can never know (in our minds)
what exists independently of a mind because our point of view is from
within a mind.
Unless... we can discover a physical cause of subjective awareness and
understand how to create such awareness "artificially". Then, we *might*
be able to speak with some authority on the role Mind plays in existence.
Until such time, I suspect at least this aspect of The Truth is
inaccessible to us.
-- fas
-----Original Message-----
From: David Dodds [mailto:drdodds42@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 01:22 PM
To: topicmaps-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: drdodds42@hotmail.com
Subject: [topicmaps-comment] Notions have existence .....
In my conceptualization system notions/ideas/concepts occur "within" a
mental-agency, a "mind". Notions are the content of the mind process.
Notions themselves cannot exist other than in a mind/mental agency.
Transformations/"conveyances"/re-presentations ! of notions can
"externalize" a rendition of such notion(s) but the notion(s) themselvs
cannot be 'beamed out' in their completeness like mental telepathy.
Certainly it makes sense to say that physical things exist independently of
human mind / perception / cognition but they are physical things not
insubstantial / noncorporeal mentalisations/thoughts.
Thomas, would you please discuss what it is that you perceive is gained by
having a universe where concepts/ideas/noncorporea can exist outside of a
mental agency/mind? To me this idea is reminescent of Pantheism, or a kind
of mentwal phlogiston or ether. I dont understand what notions outside of
minds could be used for.
David Dodds
>From: "Thomas B. Passin" <tpassin@home.com>
>To: topicmaps-comments <topicmaps-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>
>Subject: Re: [topicmaps-comment] Notions have existence .....
>Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:01:38 -0400
>
>[Enrico Silterra]
>
> >
> > "Notions have existence regardless of whether any
> > information conveys them."
> >
> >
> > Reading Steve, and Michel's presentation from
> > the Semantic Web Workshop,
> > I am worried that we are venturing into some sort
> > of Platonic mode of thought here -- My HO is that the
> > notion that notions such as "unicorns" exist whether
> > or not anyone thinks them is wrong
> > What does "information conveys" mean?
> > What are the logical operations that can be performed
> > on topic maps? Is the topic map notation equivalent
> > to the propositional calculus? If it isn't, how can we
> > use tm's to reason with? If it is, what does it add?
> >
>
>I decided some time ago to finesse this philosophical question by deciding
>to ACT AS IF notions exist as virtual entities at least for some duration.
>It is clearly the case that everyone acts as if they believe this, at lest
>sometimes. Whether it is "really" true, or whether all concepts are really
>only encoded transiently in complex brain structures and do not otherwise
>exist is a fascinating question which is currently beyond my powers to
>prove. That's why I say "act as if...".
>
>Cheers,
>
>Tom P
>
>
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