OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

tosca-interop message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: RE: [tosca-interop] some questions about the csar


Hi Chin,

Again, let me say that Thomas authored the CSAR file and its contents along with input from Vnomic so any definitive answers on its contents and decisions I would defer to him of course.  Unfortunately with Thomas on vacation for several weeks any detailed answers or changes to the CSAR file are not likely.  It is clear that many things in the CSAR are not covered by v1.0 specification (in fact all the base and specific types along with their properties) so we have all agreed at the Interop. SC to document and these non-normative things (which is why we have an Interop. Guide and Best practices draft document) and prioritize which items we can make normative for v1.1.

The reality is that it is unlikely that we will be able to make any major changes to the CSAR file currently uploaded to the OASIS SC Kavi website before the Interop. event unless there is a major flaw in the code that breaks someone or violates the v1.0 spec. If there are improvements that can be made for the next version (and next event) then we can discuss these at the SC and work together on them.  

Can the CSAR be made better or more declarative or interesting in the future? Yes. However, I believe we need to make what we have work and so far, IBM and Vnomic have code implemented that can support deploying this CSAR and am not aware of any issues from Fujitsu on its contents.

Given these things let me try to answer (in my opinion) what assumptions and decisions Thomas may have made in the CSAR construction:

------------------------
>>>> 1.       The server node is ok. We could create a VM based on the requirements of the Server node. But in the CSAR package, should we indicate which os
>>>> (in the demo we will use RHEL6.3) will be installed on the VM ? but this information is not include in the CSAR package except README.

I believe that most would agree that a Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP (LAMP) stack would be assumed (pre-installed) for the OS in this demo, regardless of Linux distribution or version.  Thomas, in the README is just letting everyone know that, for the purpose of this demo all companies may assume RHEL 6.5.  In theory, the SugarCRM app can should run with the same BASH scripts on ANY current Linux distro. as long as the VM image has the packages  pre-installed for Apache, MySQL and PHP and all that the install.sh scripts need do is use "chkconfig" command to make sure they are started when the image is started.  

In short, there was simply no need to detail the OS version in the TOSCA service template and its node types for a simple demo using these assumptions.  In fact, if a company has a cloud that uses other RHEL versions (or even distros other than RHEL) they could still conceivably do so using this CSAR (and ignoring the "PackageType" reference to RPM below).
--------------

>>>> 2. Indeed we discuss it several weeks before. I remember that in your opinion that the os already includes with some softwares (apache, mysql etc)
>>>> (plz see the attachment
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. in the mail, “ it appears that they assume that the operating system (as part of the VM, which is named "VmApache_os" in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      "SugarCRM-Defintions.xml" file) already has the Apache and MySQL software available.); but with Thomas opinion, it is just the pure os
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      without any other software. (plz see the attachment
>>>>>>>>>>>   2. In the mail, On your second question: the statement in my last email is correct: the VMs just have the base operating system
>>>>>>>>>>       installed and do not yet include any of the packages for mysql. httpd, php etc.
>>>>>>>>>>     Those get installed by deploying the DeploymentArtifacts of type OsPackageArtifact. This is purely declarative, so that's why there is
>>>>>>>>>>     no install command in any of the scripts. Solely by the fact that those DeploymentArtifacts are defined, the orchestrator "knows" that
>>>>>>>>>>     the respective packages have to be installed before any of the script operations run. Based on the package type, the orchestrator
>>>>>>>>>>    "knows" which install commands to use for the packages.”)
>>>>>>>>>>>    and in the CSAR package, there are some OsPackageArtifact which provide the information about the install package
>>>>>>>>>>>     ( file type etc.) but without reference which indicate the  place to get the install package, for example:
   >>>>>>>>>>> <ArtifactTemplate id="at-ApacheWebServer-http-packages"
    >>>>>>>>>>>   name="http-packages" type="ns1:OsPackageArtifact">
    >>>>>>>>>>>          <Properties>
    >>>>>>>>>>>              <ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties  xmlns:ns1="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes"
    >>>>>>>>>>>                       packageType="rpm" xmlns="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes">
    >>>>>>>>>>>                           <PackageInformation packageName="httpd"/>
    >>>>>>>>>>>             </ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties>
    >>>>>>>>>>>         </Properties>
   >>>>>>>>>>> </ArtifactTemplate>
   >>>>>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>>>> So which solution we should use?

Again, Thomas really needs to answer this question as he decided to place this package artifact property reference to an Apache RPM.

Let me first say that my assertions for question #1 (i.e. that the Linux distro. already have the LAMP software installed) are unchanged as the install.sh (BASH script) contents clearly assume this.  Indeed, the ApacheWebServer template may indeed need to reference the RPM package for Apache for completeness of model or perhaps it is needed to assure that the BASH scripts will work properly against RPM packages already in the VM (i.e. that the install.sh, configure.sh, etc. will run properly against the RPMs).

Perhaps Thomas should not have used "RPM type" (as this may be confusing) since our assumption is that the RPMs are already effectively installed (and only need to be started automatically using the "chkconfig" command),  but perhaps Thomas felt that this was still the best way to reference the Apache (httpd) software in the CSAR file.   Please remember that "packageType" is non-normative (and we have no proposals on treatment of these type values) so I am hopeful that you can avoid any code assumptions when you see an "RPM" package type and treat it as the "already installed RPM package" and NOT the "RPM package that still needs to be installed using an install too" (for example via "yum" tool or other tool).

If this reference (and assumptions) might break anyone trying to interop. we can discuss this on Monday's call (will add it to the agenda) and see what Vnomic and Fujitsu believe is correct as well.  If indeed we agree to change the CSAR because this stops a company from interop. then we can ask Derek or Thomas (when he returns) to update the CSAR file.

So far, it does not feel to me that for this simple interop. that we need to change the CSAR if we agree on the assumptions of how it is constructed and it allows the most flexibility.  Indeed, adding the ACTUAL install of the RPMs via a tool like "yum" would likely introduce more problems than for all us to continue to assume that the RPMs have already been installed for all LAMP stack software components.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kind regards,
Matt



From:        "Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To:        Matt Rutkowski/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc:        "Zhangyi (AA)" <paul.zhangyi@huawei.com>, Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>, "tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org" <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date:        08/21/2013 08:02 PM
Subject:        RE: [tosca-interop] some questions about the csar
Sent by:        <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>




Hi Matt,
         Thank you for your answers. But I still have some questions.
1.       The server node is ok. We could create a VM based on the requirements of the Server node. But in the CSAR package, should we indicate which os (in the demo we will use RHEL6.3) will be installed on the VM ? but this information is not include in the CSAR package except README.
 
2.Indeed we discuss it several weeks before. I remember that in your opinion that the os already includes with some softwares(apache, mysql etc)(plz see the attachment 1. in the mail, “ it appears that they assume that the operating system (as part of the VM, which is named "VmApache_os" in the "SugarCRM-Defintions.xml" file) already has the Apache and MySQL software available.); but with Thomas opinion, it is just the pure os without any other software. (plz see the attachment 2. In the mail, On your second question: the statement in my last email is correct: the VMs just have the base operating system installed and do not yet include any of the packages for mysql. httpd, php etc. Those get installed by deploying the DeploymentArtifacts of type OsPackageArtifact. This is purely declarative, so that's why there is no install command in any of the scripts. Solely by the fact that those DeploymentArtifacts are defined, the orchestrator "knows" that the respective packages have to be installed before any of the script operations run. Based on the package type, the orchestrator "knows" which install commands to use for the packages.”)and in the CSAR package, there are some OsPackageArtifact which provide the information about the install package( file type etc.) but without reference which indicate the  place to get the install package, for example:
<ArtifactTemplate id="at-ApacheWebServer-http-packages"
    name="http-packages" type="ns1:OsPackageArtifact">
    <Properties>
      <ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties
        xmlns:ns1="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes"
        packageType="rpm" xmlns="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes">
        <PackageInformation packageName="httpd"/>
      </ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties>
    </Properties>
  </ArtifactTemplate>
 
So which solution we should use?
 
         Any suggestions & comments will be appreciated.
 
 

Best Regards
Jin Qin
 
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.
huawei_logo



Huawei Nanjing Base
No 101. Software Street
Nanjing 210012, P.R.China
Tel: +86 25 566 20559
Fax: +86 25 566 24081
Mobile: +86 13851946871
E-mail:
chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------

 
From: tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Matt Rutkowski
Sent:
Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:44 PM
To:
Qinjin (Chin)
Cc:
Zhangyi (AA); Thomas Spatzier; tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject:
Re: [tosca-interop] some questions about the csar

 
Hi Chin,

Just a reminder that Thomas is on vacation starting this week for 3 weeks so will not likely reply before then.


Let me attempt to answer your questions (and I also asked Derek to comment) just looking at the README (in the latest CSAR file) and the "install.sh" scripts for Apache, MySQL and ApachePHP:


1) The README indicates that the assumed OS image is "Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) version 6.3 x86_64 base image for the virtual machines".


In regard to "OS" and "Server" nodes:

Server Node
: Each company is assumed to have an ability to allocate a "server" (or a CPU, virtual server or virtual CPU) in their respective cloud.  When the "Server" node type is found by the orchestrator, it should allocate such a server and attempt to provide the "properties" requested for a "server" e.g. CPU speed, memory etc. that are set in the Server's Node Template.

OS
Node: Each company is assumed to have a repository of OS images (VMs) available that the orchestrator would use to automatically deploy when an "Operating System" node type was found in the (template) model (in this case RHEL 6.3).  With this assumption, there is no need to included deployment artifacts for RHEL in the CSAR,


2) The RHEL 6.3 image is assumed to already have the Apache, MySQL and Apache PHP already installed in the image so that when the orchestrator executes the "install.sh" scripts for these nodes that the BASH files simply use "chkconfig" command to make sure all these are started as "services" when the image itself is started. This is quite a common assumption for clouds as many applications assume a LAMPs (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) stack to run so it makes sense that most cloud providers have "ready made" images with these software components already installed.

>>> for example, Apache ("httpd" service) when the orchestrator installs the node type "ApacheWebServer" it finds the BASH script "scripts/ApacheWebServer/install.sh" script which simply has the single line "chkconfig httpd on".  This assumes the "httpd" RPM packages are already installed on the RHEL 6.3 image.  There are similar assumptions for both the MySQL and ApachePHP software  packages.


Lastly,  we agreed in creating the CSAR for SugarCRM to use only open source software packages to avoid licensing issues. IBM will not be able to legally redistribute any open source package so we cannot send you the Apache, MySQL, etc. that we have.  


Apache, MySQL and PHP support can easily be downloaded directly from their owner's websites (free) or you can use the RPM package installer with RHEL operating system when creating your "RHEL 6.3" image to install them into the image directly.


----------------------------------------

Kind regards,

Matt




From:        
"Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To:        
Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>, "tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org" <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Cc:        
"Zhangyi (AA)" <paul.zhangyi@huawei.com>
Date:        
08/21/2013 04:04 AM
Subject:        
[tosca-interop] some questions about the csar
Sent by:        
<tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>






Hi Thomas

  Some questions about the CSAR, would you kindly to answer them?

1.There is no image in the csar, and also no deployment artifact for those "OS" and "Server". So, how to ref those image during the deployment?

2.For the components "PhpModule", "ApacheWebServer" and "MySql", there are deployment artifacts in the service template but without ref install files (e.g. tar, rpm...). So, how to deploy those components?


How does IBM solve those problems?

 
By the way, Would you provide the version of apache, mysql and php which you used for the demo?

 
 
Best Regards

Jin Qin

 
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.

huawei_logo



Huawei Nanjing Base
No 101. Software Street
Nanjing 210012, P.R.China
Tel: +86 25 566 20559
Fax: +86 25 566 24081
Mobile: +86 13851946871
E-mail:
chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------

 


----- Message from Matt Rutkowski <mrutkows@us.ibm.com> on Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:47:00 +0000 -----
To:
"Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
cc:
Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>, "tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org" <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject:
Re: [tosca-interop] some questions about the demo


Hi Chin,

Thomas is the expert on the CSAR file as he created it, but I will attempt to answer based upon what I know and what I see in the actual SugarCRM CSAR file (ZIP) uploaded to the TOSCA Interop SC here:

 
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/tosca-interop/download.php/47264/SugarCRM-20121022.zip


1.       How is the Tosca container connect to the VM instance? Just by ssh, or the other method? If by ssh, what’s the username and password will be used?


It appears that most of the scripts assume that they are being run within the instance itself.  In that way, they are able to be run immediately after the VM is created by the orchestration engine.


2.       Have the Mysql and Apache already integrated in the VM images and only to config them? Or VM images just provide the pure OS, the Mysql and Apache will be installed through Tosca CSAR file? What is the account name and password for the mysql? I still suggest to use the same VM images for the demo. It could reduce many problems.


Looking at the scripts,  it appears that they assume that the operating system (as part of the VM, which is named "VmApache_os" in the "SugarCRM-Defintions.xml" file) already has the Apache and MySQL software available.  The "install.sh" scripts for Apache ("httpd") and MySQL ("mysqld") both use the "chkconfig" utility to configure and have them "autostart" as services when the VM itself is started.  The chkconfig utility is assumed to be present on many Linux distros. and is commonly used for this purpose.


I would ask Thomas or Derek to describe how userid/passwords are managed in the actual CSAR file we used for interop.  For initial development and testing, I would recommend using whatever userid/password you may need (and likely it is the admin password for the operating system image of the VM).


3.       In the discussion, I remember that there is a import and export process. Is it means that the demo will use the company A ‘s tool to generate the CSAR file and use company B ‘s runtime environment to deploy it with that CSAR file? We worried that the used different CSAR may cause some problems, so we suggest that: The CSAR file generate by the tools should be provide as soon as possible for the other company to test their deploy demo;


Yes, the "story" will be as you have outlined.  Using your example, Company A will be Vnomic which will effectively create the ZIP of the CSAR file (in this interop this will be equivalent / completely identical to the "
SugarCRM-20121022.zip" file uploaded to the TOSCA Interop. SC, but it would actually contain the SugarCRM software ZIP file.    As in the Pulse demo, Vnomic would export (or "upload") the ZIP to the IBM ISM Cloud Marketplace where Company B (or Company C, D, etc.) would be able to download it from and "import" it into their tools or deploy to their cloud (runtime).

I hope this helps.  Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong in any of these answers.


Kind regards,

Matt




From:        
"Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To:        
"tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org" <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Cc:        
Matt Rutkowski/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>
Date:        
07/16/2013 02:01 AM
Subject:        
[tosca-interop] some questions about the demo
Sent by:        
<tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>




Hi all

       
 
        As Huawei want to show the process of the deployment. It means that the demo will use the CSAR file directly.  So there are some questions need to clarify:

 
1.       How is the Tosca container connect to the VM instance? Just by ssh, or the other method? If by ssh, what’s the username and password will be used?

 
2.       Have the Mysql and Apache already integrated in the VM images and only to config them? Or VM images just provide the pure OS, the Mysql and Apache will be installed through Tosca CSAR file? What is the account name and password for the mysql? I still suggest to use the same VM images for the demo. It could reduce many problems.

 
3.       In the discussion, I remember that there is a import and export process. Is it means that the demo will use the company A ‘s tool to generate the CSAR file and use company B ‘s runtime environment to deploy it with that CSAR file? We worried that the used different CSAR may cause some problems, so we suggest that: The CSAR file generate by the tools should be provide as soon as possible for the other company to test their deploy demo;

 
 
Best Regards

Jin Qin

 
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.

huawei_logo



Huawei Nanjing Base
No 101. Software Street
Nanjing 210012, P.R.China
Tel: +86 25 566 20559
Fax: +86 25 566 24081
Mobile: +86 13851946871
E-mail:
chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------

 


----- Message from Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com> on Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:47:05 +0000 -----
To:
"Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
cc:
"tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org" <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject:
Re: questions about demo


Hi Jin Qin,

the current SugarCRM does not include VM images and also no references to
images. Currently, we are assuming that the respective cloud runtime will
just provide an RHEL 6.3 x86_64 or equivalent image (Fedore or CentOS) for
creating the VMs.

On your second question: the statement in my last email is correct: the VMs
just have the base operating system installed and do not yet include any of
the packages for mysql. httpd, php etc. Those get installed by deploying
the DeploymentArtifacts of type OsPackageArtifact. This is purely
declarative, so that's why there is no install command in any of the
scripts. Solely by the fact that those DeploymentArtifacts are defined, the
orchestrator "knows" that the respective packages have to be installed
before any of the script operations run. Based on the package type, the
orchestrator "knows" which install commands to use for the packages.

Regards,
Thomas
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cloud & Smarter Infrastructure CTO Office - Cloud Orchestration, Cloud
Standards
Tivoli Master Inventor
IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH, C397, Schoenaicher Str. 220,
D-71032 Boeblingen, Germany
thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com | +49-7031-16-1219

IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des
Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz
Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart,
HRB 243294



From:   "Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To:     Thomas Spatzier/Germany/IBM@IBMDE,
Cc:     "tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org"
           <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date:   24.07.2013 03:09
Subject:        questions about demo



Hi Thomas,

        VM  images  are supposed to be included in the CSAR package. These
VM  images  should  be  referenced  by  the  corresponding  NodeTemplate or
NodeTypeImplementation.  But  we  find  no clue in the current CSAR package
that  can  lead  to  an  image.  So we just wander how could you locate and
import the VM images before deploying the CRM application?

        In  the  last  email  which  you reply to me mentioned that the VM
image  just  provide the base operation system. But in Matt’s mail, he said
the  VM image should include the Apache or Mysql. So could you discuss with
Matt  to  ensure  which  solution  IBM  will  adopt? Indeed I prefer Matt’s
opinion,  it could make the test more simply. And currently the scripts are
not provide the install function.

Best Regards
Jin Qin

HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.
(Embedded image moved to file: pic14506.jpg)huawei_logo


Huawei                             Nanjing                             Base
No                   101.                  Software                  Street
Nanjing                          210012,                          P.R.China
Tel:               +86               25              566              20559
Fax:               +86               25              566              24081
Mobile:                           +86                           13851946871
E-mail:chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------
[attachment "pic14506.jpg" deleted by Matt Rutkowski/Austin/IBM]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]